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Challenges

Army lists, battle reports, and discussion of tactics

Challenges

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:20 pm

So tactics situation came up the other day.. it was awesome.. but maths weird.
(which frankly I think is why LH hates it, I couldn't on the fly work out what to do at each step.. a bit like driving to fast in the rain in the dark in the countryside)

So looking for some northerners who are more familiar with the epic mano et mano battles.. or just a really really slo mo thing for math hammer freak nuts.

MM attack bike, 2 plasma, combi plas sarge, 2 gribblies. Captain with relic blade, combimelta (no use here), DA librarian unmodified strength force sword (psker level 2 divination)- all on bikes so all t5
vs Avatar of khaine (new codex version (ws10 int10 5a st t6 etc).
He takes a couple of wounds due to firing.. but still has 3 left.

So i goofed on a few things, didn't use my combi plas or chuck a krak on the way in..forgot to use divination in second turn (/3rd round) and completely forgot krak grenades could be strapped to MCs EASILY now for 2nd round..(also totally didn't spot I'd lost combat tactics until I tried to escape to fix my blunders).And only now I'm typing realise I forgot hammer of wrath (MR6 and LH both ask me questions incessantly whilst I'm moving models in an attempt to gain upper hand :lol: )

But basically should I accept challenge on (1)the turn I charge, (2) in subsequent rounds?

Arguments against challenge he's faster with 5 attacks..he shall wound me
Arguments for challenge.. str 6 relic blade throwing rocks.. reroll to wound+ divination+ charge dice.

I accepted.. did terribly, had to send in sarge to epically blunt the dagger take one for the team in the next round..so as to end the challenge.. so I could then refuse further ones. And eventually suck his soul out with a lucky force weapon stab.end of 4th combat phase.

I think.. tactically i did everything wrong.
I think i should have refused challenge early on, then accepted it later on? What does maths and challenges say.
I know generally tactics peeps say if its ever in doubt or an even fight the tactic is to not get into the challenge.
But I want to *get* challenges.. so apply brains to above scenario thankyouplease.
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Re: Challenges

Postby Baragash » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:35 pm

killmaimburn wrote:I accepted.. did terribly, had to send in sarge to epically blunt the dagger take one for the team in the next round..so as to end the challenge.. so I could then refuse further ones. And eventually suck his soul out with a lucky force weapon stab.end of 4th combat phase.


This sounds...wrong?

Did the Captain survive the first round? If so, I thought the same character was locked in the challenge until one dies?

Also sounds like poor choice on the Eldar player's part, he should have been sending the Librarian to hide at the back to avoid being Force Slurped.
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Re: Challenges

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:38 pm

You have a divine intervention rule where you pass a init test and can replace the guy fighting with another guy (pah noob :roll: :D .. no wonder you guys don't like the stuff :wink: )
st 4 against t6 (psychic test and not a 6+ on top :oops: ), vs str 6 t6 he only has a deamon 5+ and a regular 3+ nowdays.. but yes we were also kerflummaxed about who it was best to send out..
Didn't help i was trying to tactically advise him at the same time.
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Re: Challenges

Postby paulmc » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:19 pm

cant help on this one as I play orks and I cant think of any reason why I would accept a challenge under any circumstances
so far ive been challenged 8 times, refused every one, warboss or big mek cant fight, all the other boyz take off a couple of wounds, then the nob with the klaw usually finishes them off
challenges suck ass IMO so I ignore them as best as I can, narks off your oppo no end as well when u refuse and win anyway
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Re: Challenges

Postby lostandthedamned » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:30 pm

1. If you charged you'd have to wait until your own turn comes round again to perform a Glorious Intervention. rulebook pg 65
"A character cannot declare a Glorious Intervention in the first round of combat or during the enemy turn."

It depends if you need to kill the Avatar now or just prevent him from doing anything else for several turns.
If you are winning the game elsewhere then feed him your characters one by one to make it a minimum of 5 turns before he can do anything else.
To kill him ASAP i'd say the best route would be to refuse the challenge. With three characters in the unit he chooses 1 who cannot fight - With 2 that are a direct threat (relic blade / force weapon) he will get hit.

My idea.
You know that the Avatar will fight first. In the movement phase arrange you unit so all gribblies make contact first to lock the Avatar with characters 3" behind with all others at the same distance.
Refuse the challenge. You will either lose the captain or Libbie fighting for the turn.
Avatar attacks will kill the gribblies first, you can allocate to plasma/attack bike/sgt as wished. - Avatar cannot do enough wounds to hit the characters.
Your characters get their pile in move then can have a go.

To be honest I think the Bike Sgt needs a combat weapon of some type to make dealing with an Avatar an option in combat. Power Fist for preference, Power Maul or Lance on the cheap (S6 AP4 concussive or S5 AP3).

Personally I think that Glorius Interventions should only happen if something capable arrives (Th/SS Captain). Against an Avatar most other things would be grist to the mill and a decision about what to sacrifice first.

It only has a 1 shot shooting attack and infantry speed. Do not charge it unless you can kill it or not doing so will lose you the game.
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Re: Challenges

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:50 pm

"had to send in sarge to epically blunt the dagger take one for the team ***in the next round***..so as to end ."[/quote] my bad.
:D
With current smurfs I don't take close combat stuff and just combat tactics out of safety of cc etc with lots of scoring mobile fire platforms msus.. but that will change in a month or so.. I have been flirting with idea of lances everywhere, multiple ch on bikes with lances works in my head well. Thanks for the tips.
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Re: Challenges

Postby Baragash » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:52 pm

Glorious Intervention.......... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Even so, if you charged, el capitan would still have had to fight 3 rounds of challenge versus the Avatar before the Serg gets thrown under the bus, so he did well to survive.

I think that if you fought him straight up and he has 3 wounds left your best chance is just a normal fight, and barring bad dice you should take him in 2 rounds.
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