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Killing Tyranids

Army lists, battle reports, and discussion of tactics

Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby lostandthedamned » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:28 am

Thanks to it being 1600 years old and thus a bit out of copyright it's available for free on Project Gutenburg.

The Art of War

It's worth reading along with the other great texts:
The Book of Five Rings - The Japanese equivilent from the 1600's
and
Arthashastra- the Indian equivilent.

All three have sections that don't apply to wargames directly(statecraft,spying, discipline) but even these are useful when playing a long term in depth campaign.
When you wish upon a star, your dreams can come true.
Unless it's a meteorite falling to Earth, which will destroy all life, then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for.
Unless it's death by meteorite.
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:15 am

About 2500 years old I think?
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:37 am

Butt loads of stuff comes from the art of war (inc the much quoted never fight a war on two fronts, I believe its to do with the welfare and tax income of prolonged battle (where do you get your guns made if your whole country is one big front line)

I would suggest that on the micro level hagukurai is also awesome (if you translate it you'll have "in the shadow of the leafs blowing" or something like that but its basically the instruction manual for samurai. (very good at when and how to psych out your opponent, spot his weaknesses).
Just avoid the stuff about urinating on the enemy then using bamboo slippers to rip off their face.
But things like "sometimes it is correct to wear rouge" (immortalised in the mid90s hip gangsta film "ghost dog"-forresst whitiker for the winz) are very usefull, if you are injured don't show it, you lose the confidence of the people and your enemies will know that you are weak- to prevent this raid a ladies makeup kit- in ga,e "oh yeah you killed the las out my 5 man las.. but they are still scoring they will still do everything I want them to" (to self:damn)
There are some very good interpretations/ modifications for the game from these already (and there are books on using game theory in actuall games too..I just can't be arsed to shell out the £40) in general tactica on warseer and a few other places.... but you don't want to worry about them right now..:D
After the GT read up some of ljundhammers stuff on being cheaty with range and how to make your opponent so annoyed they make mistakes...
or 5.2 of the art of war "5. The general, unable to control his irritation, will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants, with the result that one-third of his men are slain, while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous effects of a siege."

My stuff was about their weaknesses- focus on the legalise so that when someone says they can do something you can say with *sham* authority that they cannot. (MR6 will assume he can do something until you prove to him you cannot, herne-firepoints, when questioned..At GT I had a guy insist he'd already had a judges nod so he could do what he liked... and I believed him.. Read up the counters to doom working on embarked troops. Get ready to reel them off to a judge who your friendly with and get ready to summon him. That will save you 10-15 casualties (even if its that your playing favourites)
Last edited by killmaimburn on Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:50 am

To beat the doom you should be trying to play the reserves game, and hoping he comes on somewhere stupid first.. With outflank this is handy as you don't have to come on your board edge straight into 100 gaunts that have stalked across ready. Have the arguably *vulnerable* infantry outflank to take out the fire support at the back.. (although with zooies podding being the main anti tank this actually probably won't be at the back- dependent on how the reserves rolls work for you)...the problem is that you also need weight of fire against the rest of their list..so someone with more experience against them needs to say when you should and should not against which builds.
(*if* you setup all on, have disposable things on the edges of your formation, keep your hq chimera like a king in chess fortressed up by the tanks outside him so nothing can DS within 6" of him stuff like that.

Your leman russ crew are safe from the doom main spell (but not the psychic blast if he kills a lot) they can move andshoot the turrets Try not to let them get pushed into a corner- tank shock out (not through an MC) if required.. remember you can announce tank shocking at combat speed (must be minimum combat speed) therefore you can push stuff around and still fire your turret)- Me and ljundhammer always get the rule wrong every time its important :oops:
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby DaBoss » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:21 am

KInG wrote:You are an IG player Phil... how do I take these fellas down with my list?
Are they gonna be DSing alot, if so should I swap my Astropath for the MotFleet?


As Sam said to me on Monday Night - most players who qualified were not taking Tyranids, so there might not be many or you may never actually draw up against one.

If you do - it's difficult to say what kind of force it will be.
But lets plan as if walking up to game not knowing - Things to do:
[*]Don't deploy all your force - do the waiting game - see where he drops in/emerges from?
[*]Don't deploy within outflanking range of board edge ~ 18" for Genestealers
[*]Make sure there is no easy Mycetic Spore landing spot near your Vehicles - don't let the Spores get that easy 6 S6 hits
[*]FRFSRF is your friend vs the Termagants and Hormagants
[*]Punisher should be good for gunning down those Broods
[*]Bring it Down - especially on a Squad with multiple Plasma Guns to take down those Trygons
[*]Your Vendettas should be good for hitting those Zoanthropes (instant kill) or Monstrous Creatures (2's to wound and no armour save)
[*]Don't leave any Monstrous Creature on 1 wound, they still kill at full impact
[*]Hit that Doom with Str8+ weapons, no matter how many wounds it's got it's still instant death
[*]I'd stick with the Astropath to make sure of your troops outflanking, than delay his - worse case is that his army all comes down on last turns reducing the effectiveness of your guns.

So if I remember your force right - deploy a strong castle of Infantry in the center of the board. Reserve on the Tanks and Chimeras to counter his Deep Strikes/outflank. Bring Vendettas on in his back field targetting vulnerable units on last wounds or for instant kill.
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby DaBoss » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:27 am

lostandthedamned wrote:Thing is it's also a drop pod that's a credible threat to transport vehicles. 6 S6 shots (ok at 5+ to hit and AP-)can be worrying to exposed rear armor. Especially tasty as it can fire the turn it drops in, unlike a DSing vehicle.


Can a Mycetic Spore shoot the turn it lands?
Drop Pods can't but they are vehicles - whereas Mycetic Spore is a Monstrous Creature?
Models that deploy out of the Mycetic Spore can shoot or run, but the Spore itself - I do question.

On Monday, we played it as a Drop Pod and so no shooting on 1st turn.
Even with losing 1 round of shooting - Sam forgot about them and moved within 6" - cost him a Wreaked Rhino and a Shaken Landspeeder
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:46 am

If it's a MC, why can't it?
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby DaBoss » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:14 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:If it's a MC, why can't it?


I think this is one of those RAW vs RAI questions.
As in the game I was in the camp that it is a MC so could shoot, whereas Sam was saying it should act like a Drop Pod and only the models disembarking could shoot.
We ended up rolling a dice 4+ it counts as Drop Pod - which is what I rolled.

I think the intention was for it to act as a Drop Pod, but we can't count it as a Vehicle as it has a Toughness not an Armour Value; and it is so big had to be a Monstrous Creature.

Would the Mycetic Spore really be able to shoot while it's cargo is disgorging from it; much in same way that a Drop Pod has to open first before it can shoot.

GW will need to get a FAQ out on this.
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby lostandthedamned » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:42 pm

GW will need to get a FAQ out on this.

Not really as they are two entirely different situations which happen to to have a similar result.

It'swhy the rules for Mysetic Spores carrying troops had to be written "As if they disembarked from a vehicle" because they didn't.

Deep Striking Vehicles can shoot but only if they are Fast (landspeeders, Dark Eldar with screaming jets)
"Vehicles count as moving at cruising speed." (pg95 6th paragraph)
"Fast Vehicles moving at crusing speed my fire a single weapon" (plus all defensive weapons, just like other types of vehicle moving at combat speed.) (pg 70 paragraph 6)

Drop pods aren't fast so don't get to shoot.

It's also good to note that if anyone assaults a drop pod in the turn after it arrives then they need 6's to hit in combat. Inversely they hit the Mycetic Spore on Normal Ws values because it's animmobile monsterous creature.
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby KInG » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:01 pm

that's why u were all suprised I didn't know him, coz I play as though I have already read it :) lol
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby OWCriminal » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:29 am

So KinG, how did it go? Did you meet any 'Nids?

When up against these 'Nids I say "get back to the ship....nuke the planet from orbit"...."it's the only way to be sure!" :twisted:
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby PaddyF » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:32 am

Kids these day. Can't even quote Aliens properly!
Ork Kommando on Infiltrating:

Everybody else is like "we'z gotta strip down to be slippery like". Beakies do this, umies do this, even orkses do this, but Eldarz all like " You'z all stupid, dats why youz monkeys. Iz putting on 'eavier armor, iz gonna stomp through the jungle all sneaky like and chainsaw you stealthy like cuz Eldar's da best like dat. And if youz looks at me funny, dakka comes outta my face"
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby OWCriminal » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:08 pm

PaddyF wrote:Kids these day. Can't even quote Aliens properly!


Glad to see you ol' guys can though! So what about the nerve gas rollin in eh? How's that go? :lol:
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby PaddyF » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:18 pm

That's worth a try, but we don't know if it's gonna affect them.
Ork Kommando on Infiltrating:

Everybody else is like "we'z gotta strip down to be slippery like". Beakies do this, umies do this, even orkses do this, but Eldarz all like " You'z all stupid, dats why youz monkeys. Iz putting on 'eavier armor, iz gonna stomp through the jungle all sneaky like and chainsaw you stealthy like cuz Eldar's da best like dat. And if youz looks at me funny, dakka comes outta my face"
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Re: Killing Tyranids

Postby OWCriminal » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:20 pm

LMAO!!!
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