Short answer- look to wolves and
BA.. they can do alot
Long answer if you still plough on with smurfs.
mattjgilbert wrote:Drop pods with iron clads in them are nasty.
Same with regular dread for slightly different reasons- avoid the venerable dread.
mattjgilbert wrote: also quite taken with having a captain on a bike at the moment with artificer armour, relic blade and storm shield (and then taking bikes as troops).
Copy cat
Also Hestan- awesome for
CC TH and
SS charges (cheapest 3++ anywhere and all mastercrafted thunderhammers makes people cry.. make sure they are in a landraider.Also spam the crap out of all melta and flamer options
mattjgilbert wrote:Either MM attackbikes or MM speeders (bikes are probably more favored).
Actually tourney scene prefers speeders due to the way they can
DS and shoot in relative safety (zero risk) rear armour..although yes points wise its a close comparison..Speeders, suicide= lone melta, mass shooty dual heavy bolter or typhoon (move and shoot frags and heavy bolter) masses consider optimal Heavy flamer and Multimelta in pairs due to dual role.. however they are bloody tricky to master.
mattjgilbert wrote:It's easy to take a marine army without enough bodies on the ground so finding the balance is the key.
Or focusing only on the core strengths of the army and trying to avoid wasteing points on stuff you'll never be awesome at.. it depends on how and what your building and how you do it.
mattjgilbert wrote:Taking 3 of anything usually causes an issue for any opponent (3 vindicators, 3 dreadnoughts etc).
Agreed
mattjgilbert wrote:I've not tried sternguard yet myself but the usual trick seems to be drop podding them in and/or teleporting them around with a librarian.
Expensive= 10 in pod with 2 heavy flamers a few combi flamers and a lot of combi meltas (with hestan) it will 100% pop a tank and kill a bunch of infantry..however its humoungously expensive.
5 man 2 heavy flamers 2 combi melta in a rhino- verging on ok.(needs distractions elsewhere in the list)
5 man 2 plas cannons or lasscannons= elite dev squad (slightly cheaper slightly better synergy.. not great but worth messing around with.
Sternguard with kantor- means they are scoring- but you still need min troops as well - argued on the web that only works in games over 2000 points (due to high cost) I'm experimenting to see if thats true over the next few weeks,
Avoid legion of the damned- can't do anything that deepstriking speeder or tacticals in a pod can't do with less waste.
Devsquad- can't compare in any way to what the wolves have.. best i've found is 5 men 4 missile (optional razorback for another squad/mobile terrain) use them in a similar manner to dark reapers - not great.
Las sponson autocannon pred ok for anti
MC and anti transport.
autcannon heavy bolter pred- not great in 5th..chucks out a bunch of mediochre shots.
tri las pred.. costs way too much,
Whirlwind- not good int 1500 and over bracket but this is handy
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... tcount=933Thunderfire cannon.. needs terrain, needs good LOS needs to be against a bike list or someone with lazy coherancy- can pull of miracles..can be poop worth messing around with.
Scouts- fairly rubbish, usefull with telion sometimes (fishing out commisars,chaos icons, nobz)..generally only work awesomely in a storm as shock troops , can get some milage as just a distraction in camo cloaks with sniper rifles.. but really don't expect much from them like that.
Scout bikers.. not as good as 4 scouts with BP+CWW led by fist and shotgun in a storm (cheers fixxer
)
Vanguard scary expensive..I'm erring towards crap but still giving them a bit more of a go.
techmarine- surpassed by the wolf one (which has a free TH and cheaper fixing) surpassed by the basic master of the forge (25 points difference for more wounds higher ld, better BS and attacks...and doesn't fill up an elites slot).
Servitors generally crap (unless anyone has found something awesome)
Sicarius-ok (old skool)
Lysander (bit crap really)
Tigurius- poo..I was trying to hammer out a tau ninja tactics list based off him last week, it can't be done.
Honour guard- bit poo
Command squad- can be good- still working on their config myself though (tricky)
Shrike- handy but very fragile- either termies (seems to get an awesome rep) or loads of assualt marines (I ran that for a year.. delicate, very little anti tank.. if your tempted your should probably wait to see what the blood angels offer in this department.
Librarian good (nullzone,gate..I use avenger, others don't) . captain on bike good,
Typical builds/ 95% of smurf lists are
I guess you have a point, if you read this back to front you should have an incredibly good knowledge of individual unit breakdowns (+configs) and what is good..and what is bad..However they haven't really been put into archetypal build list A,B,C.
At its most basic (units discussed/expanded at length in the thread) its
A) Hestan+ a mix of MM and flamers in vehicles,lots of fast attack, light on heavies. (most likely to be there)
B) librarian gate of infiinity null zone, combi sternguard/termies + scoring units (as discussed in thread)- (probable)
C) captain on bike +bikes in troops and FA- (possible)
D) a hodegpodge of the above. (what I'm doing)-(rare)
E) wild cards such as shrikewing or all podding.- (possible)
F) [EDIT] semi-shooty/disruptive Shrike list which is quite popular. Infiltrate 10 Assault Termies, and the rest of the list is mobile/shooty (cheers Volandum )
(other units that make honourable mention and may be in any of the above, TH SS termies, scouts in storms,las autocannon preds..But there are only 2 or so things I'd really call BAD in the codex and thats only if configured badly with bad synergy)
BTW Fixer, I used your list, expect a PM with batrep by the end of the day