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Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:11 pm
by Daimyo52
Thinking about a SM army and was wondering what you guys think is competative and whats not.............

Thinking on the lines of Shrike, multi Melta attack bike spam and a Crusader

Are stern guard worth the points.............

or shal I wait for the Stormraven and Deep Striking Landraider thats rumoured in the BA book 8O

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:17 pm
by Culven
The Blood Angels codex will allow a player to field a very assault-oriented army that is also very fast. If that interests you, wait for the codex. If you want a more classic SM army, then go ahead and do Space Marines. In the end, you should bukd an army that you really like or you will become bored with it too quickly.

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:17 pm
by mattjgilbert
Drop pods with iron clads in them are nasty. I'm also quite taken with having a captain on a bike at the moment with artificer armour, relic blade and storm shield (and then taking bikes as troops).

Either MM attackbikes or MM speeders (bikes are probably more favored).

It's easy to take a marine army without enough bodies on the ground so finding the balance is the key.

Taking 3 of anything usually causes an issue for any opponent (3 vindicators, 3 dreadnoughts etc).

I've not tried sternguard yet myself but the usual trick seems to be drop podding them in and/or teleporting them around with a librarian.


If you like speeders, the heavy bolter/missile launcher variant is great in numbers (can dish out a lot of firepower).

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:09 pm
by KInG
just been thinking about a new SM list myself recently. Problem is, well not a problem for long term collectors who like to collect the whole range, is that there is so much stuff I would like to field. As Matt said its getting a good balane and getting them working together well.

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:54 pm
by killmaimburn
Short answer- look to wolves and BA.. they can do alot
Long answer if you still plough on with smurfs.
mattjgilbert wrote:Drop pods with iron clads in them are nasty.
Same with regular dread for slightly different reasons- avoid the venerable dread.
mattjgilbert wrote: also quite taken with having a captain on a bike at the moment with artificer armour, relic blade and storm shield (and then taking bikes as troops).
Copy cat :lol:
Also Hestan- awesome for CC TH and SS charges (cheapest 3++ anywhere and all mastercrafted thunderhammers makes people cry.. make sure they are in a landraider.Also spam the crap out of all melta and flamer options
mattjgilbert wrote:Either MM attackbikes or MM speeders (bikes are probably more favored).
Actually tourney scene prefers speeders due to the way they can DS and shoot in relative safety (zero risk) rear armour..although yes points wise its a close comparison..Speeders, suicide= lone melta, mass shooty dual heavy bolter or typhoon (move and shoot frags and heavy bolter) masses consider optimal Heavy flamer and Multimelta in pairs due to dual role.. however they are bloody tricky to master.
mattjgilbert wrote:It's easy to take a marine army without enough bodies on the ground so finding the balance is the key.
Or focusing only on the core strengths of the army and trying to avoid wasteing points on stuff you'll never be awesome at.. it depends on how and what your building and how you do it.
mattjgilbert wrote:Taking 3 of anything usually causes an issue for any opponent (3 vindicators, 3 dreadnoughts etc).
Agreed
mattjgilbert wrote:I've not tried sternguard yet myself but the usual trick seems to be drop podding them in and/or teleporting them around with a librarian.
Expensive= 10 in pod with 2 heavy flamers a few combi flamers and a lot of combi meltas (with hestan) it will 100% pop a tank and kill a bunch of infantry..however its humoungously expensive.
5 man 2 heavy flamers 2 combi melta in a rhino- verging on ok.(needs distractions elsewhere in the list)
5 man 2 plas cannons or lasscannons= elite dev squad (slightly cheaper slightly better synergy.. not great but worth messing around with.
Sternguard with kantor- means they are scoring- but you still need min troops as well - argued on the web that only works in games over 2000 points (due to high cost) I'm experimenting to see if thats true over the next few weeks,

Avoid legion of the damned- can't do anything that deepstriking speeder or tacticals in a pod can't do with less waste.
Devsquad- can't compare in any way to what the wolves have.. best i've found is 5 men 4 missile (optional razorback for another squad/mobile terrain) use them in a similar manner to dark reapers - not great.
Las sponson autocannon pred ok for anti MC and anti transport.
autcannon heavy bolter pred- not great in 5th..chucks out a bunch of mediochre shots.
tri las pred.. costs way too much,
Whirlwind- not good int 1500 and over bracket but this is handy http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... tcount=933
Thunderfire cannon.. needs terrain, needs good LOS needs to be against a bike list or someone with lazy coherancy- can pull of miracles..can be poop worth messing around with.
Scouts- fairly rubbish, usefull with telion sometimes (fishing out commisars,chaos icons, nobz)..generally only work awesomely in a storm as shock troops , can get some milage as just a distraction in camo cloaks with sniper rifles.. but really don't expect much from them like that.
Scout bikers.. not as good as 4 scouts with BP+CWW led by fist and shotgun in a storm (cheers fixxer :D )
Vanguard scary expensive..I'm erring towards crap but still giving them a bit more of a go.
techmarine- surpassed by the wolf one (which has a free TH and cheaper fixing) surpassed by the basic master of the forge (25 points difference for more wounds higher ld, better BS and attacks...and doesn't fill up an elites slot).
Servitors generally crap (unless anyone has found something awesome)
Sicarius-ok (old skool)
Lysander (bit crap really)
Tigurius- poo..I was trying to hammer out a tau ninja tactics list based off him last week, it can't be done.
Honour guard- bit poo
Command squad- can be good- still working on their config myself though (tricky)
Shrike- handy but very fragile- either termies (seems to get an awesome rep) or loads of assualt marines (I ran that for a year.. delicate, very little anti tank.. if your tempted your should probably wait to see what the blood angels offer in this department.
Librarian good (nullzone,gate..I use avenger, others don't) . captain on bike good,
Typical builds/ 95% of smurf lists are
I guess you have a point, if you read this back to front you should have an incredibly good knowledge of individual unit breakdowns (+configs) and what is good..and what is bad..However they haven't really been put into archetypal build list A,B,C.
At its most basic (units discussed/expanded at length in the thread) its
A) Hestan+ a mix of MM and flamers in vehicles,lots of fast attack, light on heavies. (most likely to be there)
B) librarian gate of infiinity null zone, combi sternguard/termies + scoring units (as discussed in thread)- (probable)
C) captain on bike +bikes in troops and FA- (possible)
D) a hodegpodge of the above. (what I'm doing)-(rare)
E) wild cards such as shrikewing or all podding.- (possible)
F) [EDIT] semi-shooty/disruptive Shrike list which is quite popular. Infiltrate 10 Assault Termies, and the rest of the list is mobile/shooty (cheers Volandum )
(other units that make honourable mention and may be in any of the above, TH SS termies, scouts in storms,las autocannon preds..But there are only 2 or so things I'd really call BAD in the codex and thats only if configured badly with bad synergy)

BTW Fixer, I used your list, expect a PM with batrep by the end of the day

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:55 am
by 765024730486
blood angels:
if you have a few squads of tactical marines you can get a dreadnought for each squad out and you could get some more normal dreadnoughts out and your total amount of dreadnoughts is if you get as many as you can is 11 dreadnoughts

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:57 am
by 765024730486
or even get some Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:46 pm
by lostandthedamned
Both me and TheColonel have recently been taking Thunderfire Cannons as a matter of course.
You forget the fancy ammo (unless hitting Orks/Guard), and hammer down.
A number of our opponents have taken to focusing a rediculous ammount of firepower to try and kill them as we tend to average more hits than a Whirlwind.
It's not unreasonable to touch 3 - 4 people with a template and I tend to average 8-10 hits each time.
Compared to a whirlwind which needs to touch everyone in the squad to do the same.

Favourite memories include hitting 4 times with a template covering 5 Dire Avengers who'd jumped out of a transport to baldestorm,. - No squad left.

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:00 pm
by timewizard
Do you put the TF in any terrain to get a cover save, or do you just leave it out in the open?
I like taking the cannon along with scouts in camo cloaks. The techmarine bolsters a ruin, I put the scouts in there and they get a 2+ cover save!
The cannon and marine go into a crater or woods for the cover save.
Nice combo!

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:21 pm
by lostandthedamned
It goes in cover if possible, but not always the boosted one.
Because the Cannon has an armour value it can only get the 4+ concealed wherever it goes, and the 2+ save on the Techmarine is usually enough to cope, as most of the long range fire at them tens to be Kraks.
Bolstering a ruin which a tactical sqaud will occupy and hold (in objective games) tends to be a better use of the bolster.

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:38 pm
by timewizard
lostandthedamned wrote:Because the Cannon has an armour value it can only get the 4+ concealed wherever it goes, and the 2+ save on the Techmarine is usually enough to cope, as most of the long range fire at them tens to be Kraks.

How does the cannon have an armor value? And if you put the cannon in the open and the techmarine in cover, the cannon gets a 4+ cover save because 50% of the unit is in cover.
lostandthedamned wrote:Bolstering a ruin which a tactical sqaud will occupy and hold (in objective games) tends to be a better use of the bolster.

Scouts can hold objectives as well. A couple of games I put an objective on the top floor of a ruin, put a unit of scouts in the ruin to hold the objective and then bolstered it!

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:03 pm
by lostandthedamned
timewizard wrote:How does the cannon have an armor value? And if you put the cannon in the open and the techmarine in cover, the cannon gets a 4+ cover save because 50% of the unit is in cover.

The unit type is Artillary. Means when being shot at you roll to see if the shots hit the Techmarine (5+). If they hit the cannon then it counts as an armour 10 vehicle which is destroyed on any glancing or penetrating.
As it's treated like a vehicle then it gets a 4+ obsucured roll if more than 50% of the vehicle cannot be seen.
Practicle upshot, the Techmarine gets a cover save if the cannon is in cover but not vicaversa. Silly but true.

Scouts can hold objectives as well. A couple of games I put an objective on the top floor of a ruin, put a unit of scouts in the ruin to hold the objective and then bolstered it!

In my personal opinion a scout unit does not do enough damage to be taken as any holding unit. As outflanking/storm squads to get troops presence across the board yes, but bs3 sniper rifles never seem to give a credible threat. Anything gets close and the cover save doesn't help.

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:14 pm
by timewizard
My bad with artillery cover save, you are quite correct.
Scouts have BS3 but the Sgt has BS4. In quite a few games, my opponent was afraid of the 4+sniper rifle hitting his high toughness models so he choose a different target. Sometimes objective denial can be in the eyes of the attacker, not the defender. Of course the fact that I had a few other units in the vicinity backing up the scouts didn't hurt either! :D

Re: Space Marines....... Whats hot and Whats not

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:28 pm
by killmaimburn
765024730486 wrote:blood angels:
if you have a few squads of tactical marines[[one large squad of death company]you can get a dreadnought for each squad out and you could get some more normal dreadnoughts out and your total amount of dreadnoughts is if you get as many as you can is 11 dreadnoughts

The BA thread is here Actually I stuck you on the last page with the list your talking about.