Login

Username:


Password:


Remember me



Forgot Password?




 Merchandise




Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Army lists, battle reports, and discussion of tactics

Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby DaBoss » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:08 am

I've been asked to devise a Tyranid Force to push a friends Tournament Army to the max.

While deciding how many Trygons I should take, had a thought on how to use the tunnel made by the Trygons.
At first I thought it only allowed small creatures to travel through, but re-reading I believe it allows anything but winged creatures.

p50 of Codex: 'Any Tyranid infantry units (excluding those with wings) that arrive from reserve in subsequent turns may attempt to use this tunnel network and emerge fromit instead of arriving as normal'

So I assume a Tervigon could use the tunnel?

Now if so, how does the 'Spawn Termagants' work.
p52 of Codex: 'A Tervigon can spawn Tergamants in the Tyranid Movement phase before it has moved'
Now does the placing of the model count as moving? (I think Yes), which then stops it from spawning till the next turn.

Even if it can't spawn, sounds like a great way to get a large hard to kill model in the enemy back field, especially if the Trygon survived the enemy response.

What do you guys think?
User avatar
DaBoss
Junior Officer
Junior Officer
 
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe
Blog: View Blog (43)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby KInG » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:34 am

i think ur cheesey ;) but I love cheese!

Sounds naughty, but not really being up on the new Nids, I'm not able to comment.
www.GamingFigures.com & http://www.AgeofStrife.com 15% off GW models 10% off FoW & GF9 - extra 1% off orders £100+ & 2% off orders £250+ with FREE UK SHIPPING now added
AoS_GF moderator
Image
User avatar
KInG
Archon
Archon
 
Posts: 5209
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:00 am
Medals: 2
Painting Entrant (2)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby Socaddict » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:38 pm

Doesn't that require your reserve rolls to turn up exactly how you need them? IIRC you can't use the tunnel until the turn AFTER the trygon has emerged.
Image
Waaargh.
Orks project log here
User avatar
Socaddict
Mekboy
Warlord
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:00 am
Location: London
Medals: 2
Painting Entrant (2)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby DaBoss » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:42 pm

Socaddict wrote:Doesn't that require your reserve rolls to turn up exactly how you need them? IIRC you can't use the tunnel until the turn AFTER the trygon has emerged.


That is correct - the reserves have to turn up after the Trygon has; the Necrons get it much easier - they can attach a units to come through the Portal on purpose.
Not so for the Tyranids.

So my reserve rolls could easily go so wrong....
User avatar
DaBoss
Junior Officer
Junior Officer
 
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe
Blog: View Blog (43)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby Spack » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:36 pm

I get the feeling GW may errata "infantry" to "Infantry", in which case this won't work because the Tervigon has a unit type of "Monstrous Creature" rather than "Infantry".

See rulebook page 4, where Infantry is a distinct unit type from Infantry.

A really pedantic player might also point to rulebook page 51, where it says "Except for the rules detailed in this section for each unit type, these units follow the same rules as infantry." which implies that the following unit types, Monstrous Creatures included, are not infantry because this line states that they follow the infantry rules with the exceptions listed, so therefore cannot be infantry or else that line is superfluous.

I like the idea though :)
User avatar
Spack
I R Ginger
Field Marshall
 
Posts: 6815
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK
Medals: 2
Bronze (1) Painting Entrant (1)
Blog: View Blog (29)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:42 pm

I took it to mean Infantry when I read it (there are no vehicles in the nid army).

On another note, the Nid tactica article in the latest WD talks about using a lictor to target (no scatter) Mawlocs directly under enemy troops. The article was written by the codex author. That seems to suggest he intended that a Mawloc could "aimed" dorectly at an enemy model...

The Trygon rules specifically talk about scattering and how to handle it I think?
User avatar
mattjgilbert
BladeDancer
Daemon Prince
 
Posts: 5847
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Worthing, UK

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby timewizard » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:27 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:I took it to mean Infantry when I read it (there are no vehicles in the nid army).


I agree. The rule says; "Any Tyranid infantry units..." and even though it isn't capitalized, I would take this to mean it would have to be Tyranids whose unit type is infantry.
The Tervigon's unit type is monstrous creature, not infantry.
"I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire." - Erwin Rommel
User avatar
timewizard
Master of Chronomancy
Field Commander
 
Posts: 5896
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:00 am
Location: (TWAT Colonial Outpost) in the eastern USA
Medals: 11
Gold Wreath (1) Gold (1) Silver Wreath (1) Bronze (2) Painting Entrant (6)
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby mortiferum » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:28 pm

Even if this were possible (I'm in the Infantry camp) at the very earliest, your looking at Turn 4 for the gaunts to be spawned and thats ontop of favourable dice rolls for reserves to arrive in the correct order:

Trygon, Tervigon start game in reserve.
Trygon arrives - turn 2
Tervigon arrives - turn 3
Tervigon spawns gaunts - turn 4

to me its just too random to formulate a plan around it. If your looking to devise a Tyranid Force to push a friends Tournament Army to the max then I don't think this tactic would achieve that.

What army race is your friends tournament army?
User avatar
mortiferum
Justicar
Justicar
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:00 am
Location: UK, Oxfordshire

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby DaBoss » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:56 pm

timewizard wrote:The rule says; "Any Tyranid infantry units..." and even though it isn't capitalized, I would take this to mean it would have to be Tyranids whose unit type is infantry.
The Tervigon's unit type is monstrous creature, not infantry.


Yep - agree, re-reading the sections - only infantry, so I could send through the Spinegaunts (preferably next to the Trygon Prime.

I think the Tervigon has got to be on the board from the start (spawn as many units as possible -last game I had managed 4 spawnings-14-6-10-18 final time all 6's but had already run out of models so only spawned 6), sit on my Base in 'Capture & Control' or a nearby objective in 'Seize Ground'.
Could also make him divert units after him, which the Swarmlord could then attack from reserve (though I think he would not be baited so easily)

mortiferum wrote:What army race is your friends tournament army?

He is playing Blood Angels and has lots of assault troops, so needs to get to grips with me quickly.
User avatar
DaBoss
Junior Officer
Junior Officer
 
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe
Blog: View Blog (43)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby timewizard » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:06 pm

One thing to consider is taking one less Trygon and taking a brood of 3 Hive Guard. You save 50 points, get a unit that can use the tunnel, and get 6 S8 shots that against the Blood Angels hit on 3+, wound on 2+ and don't even need LOS!
"I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire." - Erwin Rommel
User avatar
timewizard
Master of Chronomancy
Field Commander
 
Posts: 5896
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:00 am
Location: (TWAT Colonial Outpost) in the eastern USA
Medals: 11
Gold Wreath (1) Gold (1) Silver Wreath (1) Bronze (2) Painting Entrant (6)
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby Angelwing » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:08 am

I would say only Infantry. No MC's
User avatar
Angelwing
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
 
Posts: 2311
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Bridgwater, Somerset
Medals: 17
Gold (5) Silver (1) Painting Entrant (11)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby DaBoss » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:29 am

timewizard wrote:One thing to consider is taking one less Trygon and taking a brood of 3 Hive Guard. You save 50 points, get a unit that can use the tunnel, and get 6 S8 shots that against the Blood Angels hit on 3+, wound on 2+ and don't even need LOS!


Not sure it's wise using the Hive Guard through the tunnel as they are not very good at CC and their weapons are only AP4, so except for shooting down Rhino's and Landspeeders - not worth the points compared to the Trygon IMHO.
User avatar
DaBoss
Junior Officer
Junior Officer
 
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe
Blog: View Blog (43)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby timewizard » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:43 pm

But the tunnel can be used not only to get your units close to CC, but to set up a firebase withing range of the enemy. Impaler cannon only have a 24" range, so a Trygon tunnel say behind a piece of cover where you could pop out hive Guard and other infantry units could be very useful.
"I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire." - Erwin Rommel
User avatar
timewizard
Master of Chronomancy
Field Commander
 
Posts: 5896
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:00 am
Location: (TWAT Colonial Outpost) in the eastern USA
Medals: 11
Gold Wreath (1) Gold (1) Silver Wreath (1) Bronze (2) Painting Entrant (6)
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby DaBoss » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:34 pm

The worry I have with using Hive Guard is that the Blood Angels have a 18" range (Jump Packs and assault move), so amount of distance shooting is going to be minimal, plus the weapons maybe Str8 but only AP4, so they are likely to pass their 3+ saves.

I know the Trygon only gets 6 shots at Str5 but feel that it is more survivable, even with hidden Powerfists and Furious Charge assaults.
He maybe able to take 1 down but all 3!!!

Also, is there still a debate on if vehicles get a cover save vs the Impaler if the Hive Guard don't have LoS? (firing from behind a Hill)
User avatar
DaBoss
Junior Officer
Junior Officer
 
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am
Location: High Wycombe
Blog: View Blog (43)

Re: Using Trygon Tunnel and Tervigon

Postby timewizard » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:45 pm

DaBoss wrote:Also, is there still a debate on if vehicles get a cover save vs the Impaler if the Hive Guard don't have LoS? (firing from behind a Hill)


Didn't know there was a debate, seems pretty clear to me.

Impaler cannon can shoot any target in range, doesn't need LOS.
Target can only count benefits from the cover it is in if it lies between the target and the Hive guard.
So if a vehicle is behind a hill and is completely obscured (but less than 24") from the POV of the Hive Guard, the guard can still shoot the vehicle because it doesn't need LOS, and the vehicle being more than 50% obscured is "in cover" and gets the cover save.
"I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire." - Erwin Rommel
User avatar
timewizard
Master of Chronomancy
Field Commander
 
Posts: 5896
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:00 am
Location: (TWAT Colonial Outpost) in the eastern USA
Medals: 11
Gold Wreath (1) Gold (1) Silver Wreath (1) Bronze (2) Painting Entrant (6)
Blog: View Blog (2)

Next



Return to 40K Tactica




 Social Links