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Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Army lists, battle reports, and discussion of tactics

Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby mattjgilbert » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:13 am

Can tau battlesuits have different loadouts within a team (don't they have 2 wounds each)?
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby KInG » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:57 am

yes, and yes
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Socaddict » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:50 am

Non biker nobs too...
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Baragash » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:55 am

You can manipulate the statistics of losing specialists in Sternguard with combi-weapons if you take the RAW, but non-RAI interpretation. It only applies when the number of wounds inflicted is >= the number of surviving models.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:44 pm

mortiferum wrote:In a similiar vein; how to deploy to get the most free movement, I'm thinking Dark Eldar raiders deployed sideways comes to mind..
Yep need the classic, basic other (termie charge from LR) is handled by LHs document. Also probably I'll just copy myself from elsewhere on coming off a drop pod beacon= MM range of 34" And chaos summoning to large vehicles (same) On my to do list :D
Seconding king in agreeing with matt, its what Ljundhammer is building at the moment..although when Mr6 relied on stuff like that I squashed him so bad he sold up his tau.
Socaddict wrote:Non biker nobs too...
complex
As an example nob (bikers) can go up to 9+ totally different,still being viable with multiple wound spread (9 wounds before first casualty) chaos termies, battlesuits blood crushers- all do less for one reason or another (less complex options, single wounds) so I figure describe the benchmark, then refer to LHs basic instructional on it.= tools to make them up.

Baragash wrote:You can manipulate the statistics of losing specialists in Sternguard with combi-weapons if you take the RAW, but non-RAI interpretation. It only applies when the number of wounds inflicted is >= the number of surviving models.
Valid points- I believe the gaming consensus was something like they are different until they all have spent combi weapons...but need to double check rules arguments on that one.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby mattjgilbert » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:58 pm

A combi weapon is still a combi weapon regardless of whether you've fire its single shot or not. It doesn't change what it it.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:14 pm

But is a combi flamer distinguishable from a combi melta before and or after.I can't remember.
Its like single use wargear (targetting squigs and things) once expended you revert to statlines of a base..?? maybe?? I can't remember
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:33 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:A combi weapon is still a combi weapon regardless of whether you've fire its single shot or not. It doesn't change what it it.


What's the in-game difference between these 3 models:
Sternguard veteran with boltgun
Sternguard veteran with combi-flamer which as fired the flamer
Sternguard veteran with combi-melta which has fired the melta

What are the requirements for forming different model sets for wound allocation?
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby KInG » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:11 pm

is a combi melta different from a combi melta, if one hasn't fired and one has..lol

@ kmb: yes a combi flamer has a flamer on it and a combi melta has a melta on it :|
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby KInG » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:17 pm

Ljundhammer wrote:
mattjgilbert wrote:A combi weapon is still a combi weapon regardless of whether you've fire its single shot or not. It doesn't change what it it.


What's the in-game difference between these 3 models:
Sternguard veteran with boltgun
Sternguard veteran with combi-flamer which as fired the flamer
Sternguard veteran with combi-melta which has fired the melta

What are the requirements for forming different model sets for wound allocation?

in game diff:

one is basic, the next kills lots of orks the next kills tanks. they all carry a diff looking weapon, and therefore their wargear (gun) is different.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:18 pm

KInG wrote:
Ljundhammer wrote:
mattjgilbert wrote:A combi weapon is still a combi weapon regardless of whether you've fire its single shot or not. It doesn't change what it it.


What's the in-game difference between these 3 models:
Sternguard veteran with boltgun
Sternguard veteran with combi-flamer which as fired the flamer
Sternguard veteran with combi-melta which has fired the melta

What are the requirements for forming different model sets for wound allocation?

in game diff:

one is basic, thenext kills lots of orks the next kills tanks. they all carry a diff looking weapon, and their fore their wargear (gun) are different.


After they have used the special part of the combi-weapon?
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby mortiferum » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:23 pm

Re: combi weapons before and after shots fired.

Not specifically related to complex units but it reminds me of query in a thread I read sometime ago (most probably on WSeer) about whether or not a Hunter Killer upgrade weapon could be weapon destroyed after it had fired its single shot. Anyone know what the answer is here?
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:25 pm

mortiferum wrote:Re: combi weapons before and after shots fired.

Not specifically related to complex units but it reminds me of query in a thread I read sometime ago (most probably on WSeer) about whether or not a Hunter Killer upgrade weapon could be weapon destroyed after it had fired its single shot. Anyone know what the answer is here?


By that logic, Skyrays and Manticores are pointless...
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby KInG » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:30 pm

Ljundhammer wrote:
After they have used the special part of the combi-weapon?


well they are still armed with the same wepaon. The flamer part doesn't fall off the weapon once the propane is used up.

does an ork nob throw his pistol away coz he can't hit with it, never uses it?

does a plasmagun totting dude who rolls a gets hot and survives now not have a weapon coz it blew up?

there's no easter eggs here James. Different combi weapons, used or not, are still different weapons.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Ljundhammer » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:35 pm

KInG wrote:
Ljundhammer wrote:
After they have used the special part of the combi-weapon?


well they are still armed with the same wepaon. The flamer part doesn't fall off the weapon once the propane is used up.


But what is the different in-game effect? The rule states that things with the same in game effect form the same 'set' for wound allocation (EDIT - paraphrase - I don't have a rulebook in front of me).

The flamer part may as well fall off, as it has no in-game effect once it has been used.

By your reasoning a DeathWing terminator Sargeant with TLCs is in a different set to a DeathWing terminator with TLCs, depite them being exactly the same, but one is called a Sargeant.

KInG wrote:there's no easter eggs here James. Different combi weapons, used or not, are still different weapons.


I'm not easter egg hunting, I'm applying the rule (as I see it, and I've yet to see anything which makes me change my mind).
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