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Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Army lists, battle reports, and discussion of tactics

Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:36 pm

My face rained when King typed that..
WHO IS THIS FOR?
Everyone- Ok lets make a general resource of tactica for noobs and peeps who are exploring new armies.. or who have taught themselves and reached a glass ceiling etc..
WHAT GOES IN IT
Links to tools, to documents, to threads of outstanding tactica merit for 40k (or for all games and still have an application within 40k.
WHAT DOESN'T GO IN IT
"Mathhammer dumb" "RAI says...".. although if you have an ethical qualm about something state it once- point made- done.
HOW DO WE PUT STUFF IN?
deeplinks to specific threads and bits mean A) we are pointing to the creator, B) if they update their thread (as for example ragewind and corpse do regularly) we know.. C) keeps the thread small. (any mods have issues with that or want to stick a rider/provision on that?)
If stuff fits into the title headings (or a new one- such as classical texts) then I can add it to the first post (so stuff is easier to find)
If attaching somethine give full credit.

How far have I got
Haven't mentioned any game theory in its purest, and no roman or other ancient wise men, woefully low on pictures.. could also do with someone doing a common terms (with pictures) thing..e.g. this is refused flank, this is the pincer movement etc.+other ( i have a few old PDFs I need to track down and cite properly before adding)..

CLASSICS
lostandthedamned wrote:The Art of War

It's worth reading along with the other great texts:
The Book of Five Rings - The Japanese equivilent from the 1600's
and
Arthashastra- the Indian equivilent.

Hagakure
How to beat anyone in a rock paper scissors tounament! :lol:
http://www.worldrps.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=37

GENERAL 40k
sephiroth87
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41409
the spook
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11165
VP denial coelomate-
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40543
COrpse (sometimes the guy is just plain wrong- sometimes he is awesome- use your brain filter when reading)
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/inde ... pic=166419
Vague link to stelek , yes the truth hurts.. will add more specific stuff later.
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/


MATHHAMMER (you can either use it on the fly in game to make rational decisions, or you can dream it whilst constructing a list to aid in minmax)
"Do I fire bolt pistols of 7 men and then charge,or do I move forwards and rapid fire...or do I stand still and use my heavy weapons... "
"Hoe many squads do I have to dedicate to get the job done?"

Basic principles by gamers for gamers

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Basics_of_Mathhammer
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/ ... ammer.html
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=151889


old Tools
Hand to hand calculator
http://members.optushome.com.au/eldar40 ... ulator.htm
XL mathhammer
http://www.freewebs.com/mathhammer/
Old ones
http://www.dimentians.com/w40k_killing_power.cfm?name1
http://warhammer.ziggyqubert.com/cccalc.html
http://jenswurm.iwarp.com/index.html

Tau mathhammer crib sheet
http://www.advancedtautactica.com/_host ... t_v1.3.pdf

The maths
http://www.mathhelpforum.com/math-help/ ... g-row.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_probability
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.prob.world.html

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=160448

Best dice roller with stat feedback (vital app)
http://www.fnordistan.com/smallroller.html

Most advanced mathhammer (only reallyfor use if you need to know single instances of events withing a bunch that may replicate but you need an exact number, e.g. of a batch of dice 2 seperate rapid fire plasmas overheating and saving..
* this one if F*%(ing complex*
http://blog.plover.com/math/yahtzee.html

DIRTY DIRTY GAME
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... psychology
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 27419.page

COMPLEX UNITS
RANGE

Currently both in attached PDF by Ljundhammer see attached(add to range section comparable distance based on chassis size (someone is a landraider away etc)

Deepstriking, see image by lord malek on how to gain extra range without too much trouble (attached at bottom)

Making things more scary than the maths, keeping troops safe and taking rubbish and making it have a use.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... psychology
I'd add modelling rubbish stuff shiny to attract fire.


ARMY-SPECIFICS
Sancjud on bikes http://www.40konline.com/community/inde ... c=182311.0
Me on using the chaos lash http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... count=1084

Silent requiem on termie heavy/greynight/deathwing lists
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/inde ... try1161447
Russels teapot on deathwing- http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... count=2537
(Belial,Chaplain,3 shooty squads, 2 with assult cannons, 1 with heavy flammer,2 LRCs 1500)

Ixe on witchunters
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ight=psych
Necron wraithwing (came 5th in ukgt 2010)
http://www.thecsg.co.uk/csg/index.php?topic=1231.0

Mkerr on assassins and inquisitors
09
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/11/ ... assin.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/11/ ... assin.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/10/ ... assin.html
07
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/05/ ... ssins.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/04/ ... assin.html
Old withchunter advice (still has some merit)
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/02/ ... nters.html

UNIT SPECIFICS
Shooting whilst obscured
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ht=chassis
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... age#338401

Whirlwind has had so many changes no one uses them as much as they could
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost. ... tcount=933
Last edited by killmaimburn on Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby timewizard » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:20 pm

Sure! Post all this to go through and read while I'm forced to work on an old, slow system!
Nice work KMB! Lots of good links.
When I get my regular system back I think I have a few more. I found one once that had diagrams on refused flank, firebase, etc. I'll see if I can find it.
This would be good to put on home page. If so, it can be linked to from other forums.
"I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire." - Erwin Rommel
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:42 pm

Whoa that's a lot of links. You do like verbosity in your posts Mr KMB.

Great idea though. The general resource needs carving up though into easy to navigate sections.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby conscriptboris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:35 pm

is it just me or can anyone else open the attched image....i wont budge and i cant see it?

although im trawling through a bunch of the links now! sweet!

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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Herne » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:21 pm

Lots of good stuff here. Must read and inwardly digest when I get a mo.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:52 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:You do like verbosity in your posts Mr KMB.
Thats the brief version where I linked rather than copy and pasted :lol:
If you want a one sentance catch all tactica then I shall quote the mightysludgelord "you ned maor pointz"..Genius.
timewizard wrote:This would be good to put on home page..

None (bar about 0.00001%) of the above is my work. Its just a directory of other peoples great work. (including ljundhammers, which actually meant I didn't have a need to copy over my own pieces on 4 topics (earlier but also inferior)

conscriptboris wrote:is it just me or can anyone else open the attched image....i wont budge and i cant see it?
My bad I copied it from a previous use..and therefore only got the thumbnail should work now.

I'm also going to break one of my own rules (most folks know I break any self imposed rules within 10 minutes.. self improvement is masturbation).. anyway.. 2-3 years back someone on librarium online made a great document.. it has not been updated for 5th ed.. but many of the principles were so general they still standup..I would adhere to my rules and link to it..but visiting the site had me infested with a horde of evil malware (XP guardian, av.exe etc etc etc) so rather than pointing you all to septic sally..here is the file. I had nothing whatsoever to do with its creation, nor am I in anyway associated with the website.. all credit to Dave Hill of Librarium Online (and others listed within the document)
So here it is.
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World of ME First try at Apoc Batrep WHAT/WHO is AOS?
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby timewizard » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:38 pm

The Manual of War is very good. I had downloaded it before.
timewizard wrote:
This would be good to put on home page..

None (bar about 0.00001%) of the above is my work. Its just a directory of other peoples great work. (including ljundhammers, which actually meant I didn't have a need to copy over my own pieces on 4 topics (earlier but also inferior)

In actuality, it is all your work. You took the time to compile the list of links. :wink:
My thought was to maybe put it on the homwpage as a list of links to tactics sites. :idea:
"I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire." - Erwin Rommel
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby KInG » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:47 pm

so.... who is he? ;)
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby Socaddict » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:04 pm

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Waaargh.
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby timewizard » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:11 pm

KInG wrote:so.... who is he? ;)


Chinese army marching cadence...

Tzun Tzu Tzee Tzor,
Tzun Tzu Tzee Tzor,
You has to start off on de reft (de right),
You has to start off on de reft (de right),
Sound off (Tzun Tzu),
Sound off (Tzun Tzu),
Sound off (Tzun Tzu Tzee Tzor, Tzun Tzu.....Tzee Tzor)
:walk :walk :walk :walk :walk :walk
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby conscriptboris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:37 pm

so kmb, would you take a whirly against the usual SM mech army for 1500, also, 1,2 or 3??

for my BA these days in taking dante+corbs+DC in rhino+ fur DC dread mx, with 3 baals for back up and assualt troops in rhinos.

im not sure if i would benefit wiht swapping a baal out for a whirly? thoughts?

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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:12 pm

Some suggestons:
- how to disembark (i.e. how to measure correctly: from the door to the back of the base, how to get the most free movement)
- how to hug cover (i.e. getting a tiny sliver of base onto the edge of area terrain, for half the models in the unit, giving the whole squad a cover save while the rest edge forward into the open)
- how to remove casualties (to prevent charges, or to keep cover saves etc)
- how to spread wounds (using complex units, Ork Nobs as an example)
- how to steal/keep objectives (getting dragged off etc)
- how to tank shock (to bunch up enemies before flaming etc)

Just off the top of my head...

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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby ruffian4 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:30 am

KInG wrote:so.... who is he? ;)

... who was he?
He died in 1066 of a gherkin.

Tzun Tzu was born in 1101, 45 years after his death, in Wigan.
First born of a serving wench in the dog and flamethrower pub and the son of a preacherman.

He was well known for a pleasant smile and long blonde hair, which led to his early career in weather forecasting.
"Tzun Tzu?"
In the morning you idiot. :roll:

Hang on, I'm thinking about Ulrika Johnson. 8O
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby killmaimburn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:10 am

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:Some suggestons:
- how to disembark (i.e. how to measure correctly: from the door to the back of the base, how to get the most free movement)
its just one rule/ over simple- but if you got one of your pics we'll use it :D
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- how to hug cover (i.e. getting a tiny sliver of base onto the edge of area terrain, for half the models in the unit, giving the whole squad a cover save while the rest edge forward into the open)
Whole section required..although i believe the generals cover it (inc the run blocks tactics,I'll double check they have a jump infantry one somewhere in their too))
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- how to remove casualties (to prevent charges, or to keep cover saves etc)
Very low level/ simplistic but I guess..I'll see if any of the general ones mention it or whether I should add a paragraph :D
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- how to spread wounds (using complex units, Ork Nobs as an example)
See ljundhammers- although a specific unit one for nob bikers and their typical config I'll C+P tonight.
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- how to steal/keep objectives (getting dragged off etc)
Last turn itus is covered.. apart from dragging opponent in one direction and having a sneak behind.. will see if thats anywhere written nicely.
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- how to tank shock (to bunch up enemies before flaming etc)
Covered.
:D
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Re: Who is Tzun Tzu? TOTAL TACTICS!!!

Postby mortiferum » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:24 am

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- how to disembark (i.e. how to measure correctly: from the door to the back of the base, how to get the most free movement)
~ Tim


In a similiar vein; how to deploy to get the most free movement, I'm thinking Dark Eldar raiders deployed sideways comes to mind.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- how to spread wounds (using complex units, Ork Nobs as an example)
~ Tim


How many armies, units are acutually truly capable of this? I can only come up with two (I'm sure there must be more?) - Nob bikers and Daemon Bloodcrushers and to a lesser extent a brood of 2 Carnifexes (must be identically armed), with two Tyranid Primes (armed differently) attached.
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