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28mm sci-fi gaming survey

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Re: 28mm sci-fi gaming survey

Postby jlong05 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:42 pm

estarriol wrote:Ok, Matt I was being tongue in cheek about the Mantic comment, although its exactly the sort of survey they should do for warpath.

As I said, I know of a set coming this summer that will cover me, and as soon as they are out I intend to plug them here a bit.

Best thing about them is the open background, which means you can create your GW units under those rules, and as it has a character driven (big man is the term) command and control system, even the special characters to a point.

ok. I am totally interested in this. I can't believe you are going to just leave us hanging though with this without giving us all the info you got. :P
The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.

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Re: 28mm sci-fi gaming survey

Postby BANE » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:52 pm

I want a game that writes a story in my head while I play it, non of the above matters to me as I can't achieve my aim with some decent quality models (which in my opinion GW have the best most readily available) and a like minded opponent. The rules don't matter, and if there are weakness and loopholes and codec creep etc it doesn't matter because gamers who play with my objectives don't take advantage of that.

You see the thing is GW have never said we make the best game, or our game is the best for tournies. They simply said we make the best toy soldiers in the world and here is some rules and fluff for you to do with what you want so you can go away and create some stories with a friend!

So people only need a New ruleset if they don't have that mindset, in which case I would suggest they would not have stayed with 40k for as long as most people on here have.
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Re: 28mm sci-fi gaming survey

Postby estarriol » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:36 pm

jlong05 wrote:
estarriol wrote:Ok, Matt I was being tongue in cheek about the Mantic comment, although its exactly the sort of survey they should do for warpath.

As I said, I know of a set coming this summer that will cover me, and as soon as they are out I intend to plug them here a bit.

Best thing about them is the open background, which means you can create your GW units under those rules, and as it has a character driven (big man is the term) command and control system, even the special characters to a point.

ok. I am totally interested in this. I can't believe you are going to just leave us hanging though with this without giving us all the info you got. :P


Other than the rules are waiting for formatting then publication (only as a PDF initially sadly) some info and aars from the author here, I don't have huge amounts of info to post.

http://www.vislardica.com/

Scroll down for Get Your Frickin' Tentacle Out Of My Face, and you will find the info I have thats public.

They are an outgrowth of TooFatLardies company sized WW2 game, originally a bolt on in a special, and this summer being released as a stand alone set. Advantages are they are not tied to any figures range, Rob wrote up the 15mms he has and liked, but GW fig adaptions are easy enough to do.
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PostThis post was deleted by markb on Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:20 am.

Re: 28mm sci-fi gaming survey

Postby markb » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:24 am

What size of game do you expect to be playing?

The 40K equivalent of 1500-1800 points. 10-15 units and a mix of unit types
Smaller games, more squad or skirmish focused
Big Apoc type games
Other

I prefer to play a normal 40K size game, although I have played and enjoyed Necromunda. I've never played Apoc, that's what Epic was for!

How long do you expect your chosen game type to last?

Up to 60 minutes
Up to 90 minutes
Up to 120 minutes
Other


Up to to 2 hours is about right

What are your preferred game mechanics?
- Player Interaction

I go, you go like 40K today
Alternating unit activation
An order or command system
Other


Although IGOUGO is the most popular method I think that an alternate activation system is better, preferably incorporating some sort of rudimentary orders system. This is the method that 2nd ed Epic used which for me, along with Blood Bowl and Man O' War (which also used alternate activation iirc), is the best game GW ever produced, although you did need two tables to play it on, one for the actual game and another for the unit cards.

- How should damage be represented?

Model removal and subsequent unit effectiveness decline
Simple damage accumulation until breaking point or destruction
Damage accumulation with a stat drop at one level then destruction at the next
Other


A model removal system with subsequent lost of effectiveness is the best for this, I'm with LH on the fact that simple damage accumulation makes no sense. A damage accumulation with loss of unit effectiveness but no model removal works best were units are ranked up, such as fantasy, Ancients and Napoleonics were it can be assumed that 1 model is equivalent to x real blokes, but does not work in a company level game were each model is an individual.

How should models behave in a unit?

Infantry units should act move, fire and attack as a whole. The individual models and their positions are not important
The individual models should all have their own LOS, ability to fire or not and attack or not depending on position
The position of the unit leader is important for range, LOS etc. but not the other models
Other


I feel that all models should be able to behave to an extent as individuals. They should remain as a unit and maintain coherency but should be able to select their own targets. I think it is ridiculous in 40K that the bloke with the lascannon has to vaporise a Grot just because the blokes with bolt guns are shooting at that unit, by the same token a trained infantryman would not waste ammunition shooting at a tank with small arms just because the bloke with the anti tank weapon is. It is the future, surely command and control and fire control systems have moved on from the middle ages! Also anyone who has ever done any form of infantry training knows that as a section commander you give individual fire orders to your section. As a caveat I was in the Signals so proper infantry probably do it differently (and better!). Maybe a combination of the last two points could work where the squad leader has to have LoS to the target to be able to give the order to the relevant model (who obviously will also need LoS).

While I'm on the subject LoS I don't think GW's true LoS works. It's fine for buildings and things like that but for me just doesn't work in area terrain, especially woods as they tend to be representative rather than an actual depiction of how many trees there are in there. For example if you use woods with movable trees (such as the Battlefield in a Box sets) then if you move the trees to get a model in, a tank or a WH unit for example, then you change the LoS. They had it right in previous editions so I don't know why they changed it.

How do you feel about game background (fluff)?

It is very important to have a fully fleshed out background for the game
A rough background is required to set the scene only
It is not important, the game rules are the important thing
Other


Fluff is important as it at least gives players an idea of why everyone is so intent on kicking seven shades out of each other but isn't the be all and end all.

How important are scenario or objective driven games?

Not important – simple stand up fights are enough
A mix of game types should be part of the game
Very important, all games should be scenario or objective driven. The game should tell a story.
Other


Objectives are vital to a game as it will, or at least should, force a player to have to come up with a coherent strategy to achieve the objective. Without objectives players would just sit in their deployment zones slugging it out or wade across the board en masse depending on the characteristic of their army. Objectives should be interesting rather than just a simple marker on the board, I think most games fall down on this, FoW and 40K both tend to fall into this trap although FoW does put a bit more effort in. As to how to make objectives more interesting I'm not sure, but there again I'm not a games developer.

On a final note, as others have said on other threads, I'm just not excited about 6th ed. I played 2nd and 3rd ed to death, played quite a bit of 4th ed but 5th ed I would be highly suprised if I have played more than 30 games over its life.
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Capt Edmund Blackadder, the Somme, 1917.

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Re: 28mm sci-fi gaming survey

Postby mattjgilbert » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:02 pm

Some fantastic responses so far everyone. It's really interesting to see the opinions. So many the same but also some differences mixed in too. I guess this is to be expected.

Keep them coming :)
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Re: 28mm sci-fi gaming survey

Postby WolflordHavoc » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:02 pm

What size of game do you expect to be playing?

The 40K equivalent of 1500-1800 points. 10-15 units and a mix of unit types

and capable supporting Big Apoc type games in the same way that KOW does with out leaving you a mental exhausted wreck (like Apoc does!)




How long do you expect your chosen game type to last?


Up to 120 minutes


What are your preferred game mechanics?
- Player Interaction


Alternating unit activation plus
An order or command system (simplified like the original Space Marine Epic game with 3 order types ie fire, move, charge)



- How should damage be represented?

Model removal and subsequent unit effectiveness decline

Other (Suppression - trained soldiers/warriors/Alpha breeds etc do not run screaming from the battle field)


- How should models behave in a unit?

The individual models should all have their own LOS, ability to fire or not and attack or not depending on position

Or

The position of the unit leader is important for range, LOS etc. but not the other models



How do you feel about game background (fluff)?

It is very important to have a fully fleshed out background for the game

(I love the 40K back ground and have, I am ashamed to say had multi page arguments, on "teh WWW interweb" over a fictious universe set 39,000 years in the future!)


How important are scenario or objective driven games?

Very important, all games should be scenario or objective driven. The game should tell a story.
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Re: 28mm sci-fi gaming survey

Postby estarriol » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:02 pm

Suppose I ought to answer.

Reinforced company size, so 9 or 10 sections of inf, and some armour, artillery and other stuff.

COuple of hours playing

I want to feel the grief of friction as the cunning plan goes up the swanny, scenarios and linked games are the best.
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