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Tales of Random Movement

6.45pm Monday - Downley community centre, School close, Downley HP13 5TR

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Tales of Random Movement

Postby DaBoss » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:44 am

In 8th Edition Warhammer Fantasy one of the biggest changes is the Charge distance being random.

Last night in my game between Skaven and Ogre Kingdoms this really showed up.

On one flank I had my Plague Monks (39 strong) with Plague Priest-Furnace and Lord Skrolk plus a unit of 10 Censer Bearers facing off against the Ogre Tyrant, Butcher and 8 Ironguts.

In my 1st turn my Hellpit Abomination rolles a triple 5 and goes in a random distance right in the path of the Ogres,
so being out of range and blocked anyway, my Plague Monks move up a few inches.

In the Ogres 1st turn they declare a charge on the HPA which flees (as he had the new Banner of Eternal Flame) as I would have no regeneration. The ogres roll double 5, so shamble forward 5".

In my 2nd turn the Ogres are 17" away so I needed to take a Frenzy restrain test which I failed on double 6 (but luckily I had my Army Standard Bearer in 12" and re-rolled and got 10). If I had declared the charge I would be in. Instead I shambled 5" forward.

In the Ogre 2nd turn - with either 12" to my Plague Monks or 13" to my Censer Bearers, Rob decided to go for the Censer Bearers but fails rolling a 3 & 2, so the Ironguts shamble forward 3".

Now the distance is only 9" for my Plague Monks and 10" for the Censer Bearers - I declare both even though only 1 will fit the frontage. The Plague Monks roll a 2 & 1, while the Censer Bearers roll a double 2 - both fail to make it!!!!

So now the Ogres are 7" away and can't fail to charge and make it.

So many failed charges - which in the old rules would have been perfect charges.

I'm wondering if it would be worth taking the Banner of Swiftness (15pts) for +1 to your Movement characteristic or on the Battle Standard Bearer the Rampagers Standard (55pts) which allows you to re-roll your charge distance?
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby Ogregut » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:16 pm

Don't forget in 7th ed you won't have been able to charge in turn 2 as you would have been out of range.
Rob would have been out of range of the censer bearers and may or may not have charged the plague monks depending on how confident he was in his range guessing.
You were unlucky when you were 9" away and the Banner of Swiftness would have got you in, could be quite good on the furnace.
In my game last night I got 2 turn one charges off, both needing 9+ to get in, as you said last week 8th ed favours the bold!
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby DaBoss » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:00 pm

Ogregut wrote:In my game last night I got 2 turn one charges off, both needing 9+ to get in, as you said last week 8th ed favours the bold!

Didn't get round to seeing how your game went - Win/Loss?

How many points were you playing?
I found that our game @2500pts was a bit tight, ended on turn 4, then again I did have James heckling me from the side lines with questionable rules discussions (sometimes I'm not sure if he is genuinely asking a question or just trying to get a rise from me by being 'Devils Advocate').
2500pts of Skaven takes a lot of organising and deployment, will have to see if the 2000pts Skaven vs Lizardmen fits better.
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby TheColonel » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:06 pm

I was asking a genuine rules question but what about some sympathy for the devil!
"Crom, i've never prayed to you before, i have no tongue for it.
No-one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought and why we died.
All that matters is that two stood against many, thats whats important.
Valor pleases you lord Crom so grant me one thing, grant me revenge.
And if you do not listen....then to hell with you!"
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby Ogregut » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:06 pm

I did hear you two!

It was a loss for me, Skarsnik was never going to stand up to Grimgor!

Got to turn 4 but my army had dissapeared by then!

I think 2500 is probably the best size for down the club but I sure once everyone knows the rules well enough it will speed up.
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby DaBoss » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:22 pm

TheColonel wrote:I was asking a genuine rules question but what about some sympathy for the devil!


Sorry for being a bit off - but battles between me and Rob are always a tight and competitive and I just wanted to concentrate on the game, than discuss all the different rulings in the FAQ.

As it was I think 4 questions came up during play.

2 easy ones
a) Do Artillery take Panic Tests and destroyed friends?
See Page 110 - they do take a test but if failed they hide under the war machine so cannot shoot next turn.

b) Can Skaven Weapon Teams pivot and shoot their weapons, in the game the Warpfire Thrower?
See Page 60 of the Skaven Book, Special Rules 'The Warpfire Thrower is a move or fire weapon, but can pivot on the spot to face the target it intends to shoot'.

Now the two harder ones.
c) Can a Skaven Weapon Team take a 4+ ward save from the Giants 'Pick up and throw' attack?
Page 60 again - A Weapon Team within 3" of its parent unit is treat in all regards as having a 4+ ward save against ranged attacks such as missile fire and spells. As the Giant Pick up and throw has a 12" range, they do get the save.

d) What Leadership does a Skaven unit use for its Steadfast rule?
In the FAQ it states:
Page 33 – Strength in Numbers
Change the second sentence of the first paragraph to “Units with the Strength in Numbers special rule add their current rank bonus to their Leadership value for any Leadership test.”

Now the main rules state you use the units or the Generals unmodified Leadership to test.
So I now understand that my Clanrats with 2 ranks would have to had tested on a Ld of 5 not 7.
As it was I rolled double 5 and ran anyway.
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby Ogregut » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:20 pm

Yes your weapon team would get a ward save if a model was thrown into it but not if it was the model being thrown!

I agree with the way you did the steadfast right but it can be argued either way. There needs to be a example in the FAQ, hopfully there will be next time.
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby mattjgilbert » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:55 pm

re: steadfast - what about things like a slannesh daemon spell which has reduced your Ld value. Is this taken into account for steadfast?

I think the intention of steadfast is that the combat result is not applied to the unit's Ld but other factors could still be.

Thoughts?
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby DaBoss » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:30 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:re: steadfast - what about things like a slannesh daemon spell which has reduced your Ld value. Is this taken into account for steadfast?

I think the intention of steadfast is that the combat result is not applied to the unit's Ld but other factors could still be.

Thoughts?


Nope - nothing changes the leadership value.
main rules state you use the units or the Generals unmodified Leadership to test.

So slaanesh spell, Lore of Death 'Doom and Darkness' or Ogre Brahmir Statue - all have effect on basic breaktests but not 'Steadfast'.
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby mattjgilbert » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:56 pm

I know that's what it says but I was questioning whether that's what they intended ;)

In your case, being steadfast is potentially worse which doesn't feel right.
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Re: Tales of Random Movement

Postby DaBoss » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:44 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:I know that's what it says but I was questioning whether that's what they intended ;)

In your case, being steadfast is potentially worse which doesn't feel right.


I agree - I know what you mean, there's going to be more added to these FAQ's than they expected.... :roll:
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