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Re: Ultramarune

Postby killmaimburn » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:47 am

Yes hunter but the point is in 40k universe gamers play in it shouldn't.
ruffian4 wrote:As an example of fluff/mathammer, I would ask, "Why did the flamer explode, when we "know" that it is plasma guns that get hot???

In the story, its fine, but when held up against the fluff as it is actually "in-game", it becomes a weakness.

I'm not sure this is the most keyboard headbutting nerd raging inducing suspension of disbelief shattering moment.

>Random strangers who spent £50 on the film know that fire is hot.
>Fans who don't care whats churned out accept anything
>Fans who play the game currently in rules know there is no explosive downside to firing a flamer type weapon(for balance)
>Super geek fans know that promethium (the 40k universe version) gel is highly unstable and will explode if exposed to normal air.
3 out of 4 satisfied.

Compare with the crozius projecting its power weapon field forward like an ap1 flamer/wind of chaos
>Random strangers don't expect a mace to flatten an army..a wizard did it :roll:
>Fans who don't care whats churned out accept anything
>Fans who play the game go into palsey about a CC weapon that can change into a ranged weapon whenever the plot needs it..(Hurons claw has a flamer IN it, Abbaddons claw has a combi bolter IN it etc)
>Super nerdy geeks break film moment wondering if this means marneus calgars most revered super power fists can shoot down passing aircraft through sonic booming up in a disco move.

E.g. in this V short indie homemade one.. you as a geeky viewer do not mind that a firewarrior (the lowest CC element in the game pretty much) has managed to take on 2 terminators..due to the rule of cool.People not geeky don't notice and just assumed dexterity over armour.

Coincidentally the bit with the flamer overheat, the hordes of people and objects in motion, the dust swirling, multiple depths of background.. was the main bit I could spot money being spent..if the rest had been to that quality.. :love10

They should as a PR move offer to send out the blueray version free to all people who (registered/sat waiting through delays and) bought the premium product and have become their enemies(/ decided that everything the movie touched is terrible), as a good will gesture..it also could be twinned with some kind of anti piracy statement that people who paid for the top notch product get support/patch.(reasoning? this thread) It plays to a forgeworld/GW specialist strength in customer after service.Especially when sales turn out lower than projected its a good way to turn the negative into a positive news story.

I'm hearing odd things about FFG being allowed to licence a horus heresy video of some sort, anyone hear anything about that? Someone certainly seems to have started making a few bits and bobs in a similar vein. lord inquisitor seems to be chugging along(he's just completed a thunderhawk docking sequence)..and damnatus still hasn't been given any nod-(have you seen it olddude? its very reasonable..for a small low budget indie project for fans)
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby ruffian4 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:50 am

killmaimburn wrote:I'm not sure this is the most keyboard headbutting nerd raging inducing suspension of disbelief shattering moment.

Fog off you fogging fogger.

That's not what I mean.
What I do mean, is that the film starts to tread on toes, imo, if it goes too far beyond the actual game as played, in terms of mechanics, even though those mechanics are abstract.

I think it was hunter that raised to point of power armour not being that effective, that's just mathammer. But, what it means, is that if the film doesn't represent the game faithfully, our levels of belief start to diminish.

I had forgotten about the crozius calamity, fair point.

But, in the films "reality", should a boltgun fire the sort of range it "should", or the sort of range "it does?"
If someone got shot at a movie range of 1k, should we praise the writer for accuracy, or deride him for straying so far from mechanical reality?
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby ruffian4 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:50 am

killmaimburn wrote:I'm not sure this is the most keyboard headbutting nerd raging inducing suspension of disbelief shattering moment.

Fog off you fogging fogger.

That's not what I mean.
What I do mean, is that the film starts to tread on toes, imo, if it goes too far beyond the actual game as played, in terms of mechanics, even though those mechanics are abstract.

I think it was hunter that raised to point of power armour not being that effective, that's just mathammer. But, what it means, is that if the film doesn't represent the game faithfully, our levels of belief start to diminish.

I had forgotten about the crozius calamity, fair point.

But, in the films "reality", should a boltgun fire the sort of range it "should", or the sort of range "it does?"
If someone got shot at a movie range of 1k, should we praise the writer for accuracy, or deride him for straying so far from mechanical reality?
killmaimburn wrote:If this is a masked ball, then the other bits of him are off spiking the teachers punch.


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Re: Ultramarune

Postby mattjgilbert » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:50 pm

The film should match the fluff, not the game. The game represents the fluff. Having something represent the representation takes things too far from the reference point.

Let's imagine Lord of the Rings was not yet a film. Would you expect the film to be based on the books or on the games already based on the books?

I've not seen the 40K film yet so can't comment on it directly though.
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby estarriol » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:35 pm

And which fluff, current fluff, old fluff, disenfranchised fluff, fluff GW are thinking of doing next year?
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby hunter101 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:40 pm

There Belly Fluff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby mattjgilbert » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:16 pm

The fluff that is current at the time the film is being made.
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby estarriol » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:37 pm

film takes 2 - 3 years to make, GW changes fluff every 5 weeks...
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby conscriptboris » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:44 pm

Bar what's been said, having spent just off a decade in army, I find the tactics completely ridiculous, basic concepts that any film with military action would normally at least stumble across, some simple ideas:

- you dance without music, same principle with fire and movement, no fire, no movement.

-just because you have bodyarmour (power armour) does mean your excused from getting low and in cover, reduces your profile and ability to get targeted.

- orbat resembles poor Vietnam tactics, the officer leads the troops (not exactly at the front, but with the front) and the Sgt deals with replenishments and casevac's in modern conflicts.

Just a couple of bits, however if the marines were doing this in the background the combat wouldn't look as stagnant.

I bought a few copies, one for myself and some as gifts, not because I believed the film that good, however i really want codex pictures to get the money to expand and develop their capability.

A question to all in this thread, why haven't they hired fans who have proved themselves with their cgi capability at home!

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Re: Ultramarune

Postby Spack » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:07 pm

just wanted to say thanks to ultramarune for replying to my email. sorry again go have put you through it.

i've got limited net access via my crap phone for a few days, will post more coherently when i'm back off my hols.
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby Ultramarune » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:12 am

I’m not sure but, there seems to be an issue with fluff.

Not being the writer or a producer of the movie I can’t really comment about how the story was built but, can anyone think of a property that was made into a movie from an existing work that wasn’t changed in any way?
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby jlong05 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:57 am

It's not a matter of changed in any way. It's a matter of the level of that change. Many movies developed from novels had a small degree of change(mainly for cinematic effect, but we are not talking that with this project. Instead we see giant changes in the fluff(background, beliefs, understanding, methods, combat, etc..) Maybe if only 1 was changed it would have been better, but when one changes all of them, it begins to bother the majority instead of the minority.
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby killmaimburn » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:35 am

Ultramarune wrote:I’m not sure but, there seems to be an issue with fluff.

Not being the writer or a producer of the movie I can’t really comment about how the story was built but, can anyone think of a property that was made into a movie from an existing work that wasn’t changed in any way?

In any way?.. sin city,the cars are never touching the ground when in motion to indicate speed (just as originally drawn)they pretty much used the comic as a storyboard for the film. :mrgreen: (If I dedicate a day to it I could probably make a list, but it would be at best moderate in size)
but a lot of careful translation to film involving a directions total understanding of all the material/author and then twisting/spinning A concept, maybe (more) satirically.(american psycho ,naked lunch etc lots )

A chaplin using a psychic force wave.. is like batman suddenly using mind bullets rather than a posh toy he made. (they didn't go that far with Batman and Robin and yet still fans at premier started screaming out "death to joel schumacher", turns out he was taking the flack for far too much interference from WBs)

I'll reverse the question have you ever seen a film pitched exclusively as satisfying geeks (and priced accordingly) that went off message/outside universe/broke character and 'succeeded'*?If I push myself I can think of a couple of jump sharks

* 'succeeded' as in meeting with a positive viewing response rather than fiscally getting beyond even.
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby Ultramarune » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:15 am

killmaimburn wrote:
Ultramarune wrote:I’m not sure but, there seems to be an issue with fluff.

I'll reverse the question have you ever seen a film pitched exclusively as satisfying geeks (and priced accordingly) that went off message/outside universe/broke character and 'succeeded'*?If I push myself I can think of a couple of jump sharks

* 'succeeded' as in meeting with a positive viewing response rather than fiscally getting beyond even.


My earlier mention of Spiderman and the web shooters in the last trilogy, Wolverine in the X-Men movies, Hugh Jackman is like six feet tall and Wolverine is supposed to be five feet. X-men first Class, which I loved, with the exception of Beast none of the first class were in the original first class. The original version of the Shining, Stephen King said he hated it because it veered to far from the story, it scared my pants brown. The Lord of the Rings, Tom Bombadill, the Barrow-downs and the scouring of the shire all got cut from the films.

How’s that for a start?
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Re: Ultramarune

Postby ZhatanTheBlack » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:58 pm

wolverine was not "sucessful" in he terms mentioned by kmb. wolverine was the most god awful pile of S*** ive seen. it was soooo far from the story of his origin in the comics that it looked as if the writers had read the story in great detail then gone to extreme effort to make the worst film they possibly could from the ideas in the book, purposely contradicting everything in that story. plus the cgi sucked, so citing wolverine as an argument for changing things from original medium to movie script.....not the best choice.
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