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Khorne Daemon Log

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Postby Murphey » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:37 am

KInG wrote:great work guys :)

but murphey, where do I get these poins from?

that herald is 115 with collar and 135 with icon.

I can have 3 crushers for that! just the unholy might on thirster and herald comes in at 35points.

more bases on more crushers gives a 4+ save to models behind them, but a herald wont block or offer cover to much behind him.


I would get the points by dropping the bloodcrushers honestly, and here's the reason.

In CC, the ability to dominate your opponent (i.e. Have higher initiative, kill him before he kills you, etc.) is paramount. Especially in 5th ed, with the new combat resolution, and the lack of massacring into other units.

The reason is pretty simple. CC units run a huge problem with attrition. Having to run across the board after withdrawing enemy units means you've got to weather some pretty harsh fire before you even get there. Which means that very rarely does a CC unit get into CC unscathed (against a smart opponent).

Which means that once you get into CC, you've got to make it count, and if possible, do so without getting hurt.

No CC unit is the best against everything. Banshees will kill Harliquins, but will do nothing against a T7 Carnifex, or wraithlord, etc. Harliquins will kill wraithlords, but get eaten buy Banshees, etc. So the "best" CC units are the ones that (for their cost) work really well against the widest spectrum of enemies. (if you have a unit that can kill off 90% of the CC units in the game, then that is a damn good CC unit)

Which is why the difference between I4 (5 on charge) is so different from I5(6 on charge). It simply comes down to a wider spectrum of enemies you can kill in CC without getting hurt yourself.

And I think I've outlined the large number of things that this includes. Considering that generic marines charging bloodletters, even bloodcrushers stand a good chance of doing a lot of damage to them due to striking simultaneously, I still would suggest the herald.

Also, don't forget to toss in the fact that since the herald is one model, that charging a unit partially in cover is far less likely to make you have to take a Diff Terrain test, and therefore fight at I1, I think it's still a superior choice.

Just my take on it anyhow :)

~Murphey
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:05 pm

I'm sorry its one of those pain in the ass multiquote ones.. if a mod feels like turning it into bullet points or something knock yourselves out.
Murphey wrote:All space marines, including dreds and ironclads. Especially relic blades (str 6 power weapon, I4)
I rarely see anything charge bloodcrushers (who runs towards a khorne army? I will occasionally charge a ork army if I know exactly what I'm doing) power weapons bounce off the high T, fists go last. so only relic blade (I field one and worry its too many) yes Ironclads are a problem..(its wonderfull that GW finally made a dreadnought that makes people cack themselves)I can't get around the ironclad point :)
Murphey wrote:Most Chaos space marines, including berserkers, Khornite termies, etc.
At the UK GTs you won't fight that many khorne CSM armies (lots of people have been saying they are the only thing that can beat orks..) yes be afraid of bloodspear (like Lhs deathwing but just 3 LRs packed with beserkers.. but they won't be winning the tourney- might be worth practising against that one for a chuckle anyway). Again the bulk of the i4 is offest by the high toughness relcuctance to charge.
Murphey wrote:Tyranid Hive tyrants, some hormagaunts, Raveners, Tyrant guard, and some warrior builds.
true as I said at the end of your thread.. if you play nids your advice is watertight.
Murphey wrote:Necron lords with Warscythes (this is a fairly big one).
Depends.. I know GW said they made necrons an assualt army in 5th but I still don't see necron lords actively charging..ever. If 130 points of bloodcrushers are charged and in fighting simulatenously kill a orb wielding lord.. I think you've come off so much better you should do a happy dance.(KMB official advocate of bishop sacrifices in 5th ed)
Murphey wrote:DE Incubi.
Str 3 vs tough5?- with DE this year I'd just be afirad of the 40 dark lance lists..Mr6 has read so much about folks getting them ready he ran out and bought one
Murphey wrote:Charging Ork Nobz and Warbosses.
Without powerclaws (in boyz) and without mega armour.. so basically against nob bikers -yeah the world shakes whenever anybody says nob bikers.. but really how much more would a chariot survive when charged by 10+ warboss nob bikers.He'd still be dead..he may have removed 1 whole biker first but he'd still be dead.
Murphey wrote:Bloodcrushers, bloodletters, Bloodthirsters.
Get the charge :)
Murphey wrote:The reason is pretty simple. CC units run a huge problem with attrition. Having to run across the board after withdrawing enemy units means you've got to weather some pretty harsh fire before you even get there. Which means that very rarely does a CC unit get into CC unscathed (against a smart opponent).
Where those extra wounds and ability to rules wise "shake off" fire of going blood crusher come in.
Murphey wrote: Which means that once you get into CC, you've got to make it count, and if possible, do so without getting hurt.
Make it count by having 7 more attacks. make it count by engaing more units so that your not left standing in front of a gunline without human shields... tradeoff for the Int.
Murphey wrote:Which is why the difference between I4 (5 on charge) is so different from I5(6 on charge). It simply comes down to a wider spectrum of enemies you can kill in CC without getting hurt yourself.
But equally harlies- you can brush off wounds by putting them onto Mr redshirt.. where as a single model must take all wounds- causing self harm. yes higher int is better but not regardless of other factors.
Murphey wrote:Also, don't forget to toss in the fact that since the herald is one model, that charging a unit partially in cover is far less likely to make you have to take a Diff Terrain test, and therefore fight at I1, I think it's still a superior choice.
you got me on that one.If we were talking about dangerous terrain more models would mean more chance of both taking a wound and still also something surviving to get there.being a single model is also easier to pull people further out when yanking them off objectives.
Last edited by killmaimburn on Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby KInG » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:26 pm

need more points!!! :(
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Postby killmaimburn » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:44 pm

ahh good you know of sludge lord, he was awesome.That meme will live for3v3r.
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ruffian4 wrote:Handy fellow, this kmb...Like Ahriman delving the paths of the webway ...
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Postby KInG » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:04 pm

i'm thinking thatif I need to attack a high Int model, then that's the roll of the B'thirster...

The crushers are designed to offer cover tot the guys behind them and hold up the enemy assaulting them. I think the crushers are best suited in that roll.
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Postby Murphey » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:21 pm

KInG wrote:i'm thinking thatif I need to attack a high Int model, then that's the roll of the B'thirster...

The crushers are designed to offer cover tot the guys behind them and hold up the enemy assaulting them. I think the crushers are best suited in that roll.


Fair enough. Although you'd be surprised at how big a difference that Init makes. But ultimately, go with the list you feel most comfortable :)

When someone asks me to critically analyze their lists, I usually try and do it pretty thoroughly, so if it seems like I'm advocating for something very strongly, that's just because, in my experience, it seems like the better option.

But lets be honest, there is few games that generate gaming microcosms better than 40k ;) So my experience may be very anecdotal. :)
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Postby KInG » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:04 pm

1 x B'thirster
4 x 8 B'letters
3 x SGs (2x phlegm; 1x tounge)
6 x B'crushers (FoC)

Let's get it on, I can't stress over this any longer, need to get them all painted lol it's next weekend :D

Wish me luck ;)
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Postby mattjgilbert » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:24 pm

er...good luck!

are you feeling confident?
Last edited by mattjgilbert on Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:29 pm

yes, Good Luck mate. :D

remember to have fun, and "just say yes!" and whatever the result, you will be a winner. :)

wearing your GF t-shirt with pride will be an added bonus. ;)

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Postby killmaimburn » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:13 am

page 3 listIf i had to pick.
But your khorne. There isn't that much difference in it.
Good luck to your good self.. however my sacrifices have been bought in the name of gork and mork so if you fight tau maul watch out :)
And we all know that LH will win, due to his powergamer super duper list :wink:
Good luck everyone.
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Postby Murphey » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:00 pm

Best of luck King!
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Postby timewizard » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:19 pm

Good Luck!
In the words of Galaxy Quest, "Never give up, never surrender!" :wink:

TW
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Postby KInG » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:04 pm

cheers everyone for the well wishes.

i think i will try that list Toby ;)

Dan, is there an inet connection at WHW, if so I may take my lappy to update you all of our progress throught the day.
Last edited by KInG on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:05 pm

there is free wifi in bugmans iirc
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Postby KInG » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:10 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:there is free wifi in bugmans iirc


cheers matt..

Painting Update: All based, B'letters swords blackened, hilts brassed, and SGs drybrushed with tin bitz all over the legs and bodies. Piccies as sson as I've finished painting the B'letters swoards, prolly tmw night ;)
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