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Space Hulk

Anything to do with Space Hulk, either the old versions or the recently released new version

Re: Space Hulk

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:11 pm

Another question (following on from one on 'seer):

Lets say you have a Marine on one side of a door (facing the door) and a line of 3 blips on the other side of the door. If the door is opened, are all 3 blips converted, or is it just the first blip that is converted and then the stealer(s) from it block LOS to the blips behind it before they too can be converted? (or do blips block LOS to eachother or something?)

~ Tim
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby jlong05 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:16 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:Or maybe GF could see about becoming a supplier? ;) ;)

~ Tim

I actually gave Romeo(BattleFoam's owner) the Gaming Figures site info when he was first starting up as a possible option for distribution in the UK. I am not sure if he ever even tried to make contact, but I do know that he was very focused on getting product in for Adepticon, which was his priority at the time. So it is possible that the UK connection may have slipped his mind.

I admit that I do not know all the 'details' of distribution of products by secondary locations and how those contracts work, but it 'may' be something worth looking into. If I can help in any way, please let me know. Otherwise, the group rate sounds a bit more reasonable for shipping (although prior to the AoS meetup would have been better, as no additional UK post).
The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.

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Re: Space Hulk

Postby jlong05 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:19 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:Another question (following on from one on 'seer):

Lets say you have a Marine on one side of a door (facing the door) and a line of 3 blips on the other side of the door. If the door is opened, are all 3 blips converted, or is it just the first blip that is converted and then the stealer(s) from it block LOS to the blips behind it before they too can be converted? (or do blips block LOS to eachother or something?)

~ Tim

In my game with my daughter, we had wondered this same thing. For her it really didn't matter as she didn't care, but it was a strategic thing for me had I been playing the steelers. Also, I assume if steelers 'do' block LOS, then if you shoot and destroy each blocking model, then the newly revealed blip would convert then right? That is how we actually played it.
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby timewizard » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:26 pm

I would say just the first one. Involuntary conversion says that any time a marine can draw LOS to a blip, it is automatically and immediately converted. So the door opens, the marine can draw LOS to the first blip. It is converted andthe model is placed. The model now blocks lOS to the other blips so they remain unrevealed.
Also, in your example, if the blip counter is for 3 stealers, one would be lost. The first would be placed where the revealed blip was, the second where the opened door was, and since the 3rd could not be placed on a blip counter, it would be lost. Correct?

EDIT @jlong05-Yes, if a stealer is lost to shooting and there is a blip behind it, it will immediately convert.
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:32 pm

timewizard wrote:I would say just the first one. Involuntary conversion says that any time a marine can draw LOS to a blip, it is automatically and immediately converted. So the door opens, the marine can draw LOS to the first blip. It is converted andthe model is placed. The model now blocks lOS to the other blips so they remain unrevealed.

But unless blips block LOS, couldnt he simulataneously draw LOS to all 3 blips as soon as the door opened?

~ Tim
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby timewizard » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:02 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:But unless blips block LOS, couldnt he simulataneously draw LOS to all 3 blips as soon as the door opened?

~ Tim

No because page 11 says that "Actions are performed one at a time, and each action must be completed before moving on to the next one."
Converting a blip voluntarily is an action. In the case of an involuntary conversion (as in your example) the rules on page 17 say, "In the case of voluntary reveals, the Genestealers may not be placed in line of sight of a Space Marine. With invoulntary reveals they may be and, in this case, placing the Genestealer counts as performing and action..."
So the Marine would open the door. The first blip is going to undergo an involuntary conversion. It is revealed and the genestealers are placed. The Marine would then continue his action (if he had enough APs or CPs left).
In both conversions, the rules refer to converting "a blip". Blips are converted one at a time.
Now before you ask, no I don't know if the genestealer player can choose which blip to convert, but I would presume taht the closest blip would be converted. I know the rules don't say that blips block LOS, but since each blip represents at least one genestealer, I think it would be fair to say they do.
There's my take on it.
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:11 pm

timewizard wrote:No because page 11 says that "Actions are performed one at a time, and each action must be completed before moving on to the next one."

OK, while the conversion of a blip might count as an action, and therefore have to be done one-at-a-time, simply having LOS isnt an action, is it? Doesnt the Marine have LOS to all 3 blips as soon as the door opens?

timewizard wrote:Now before you ask, no I don't know if the genestealer player can choose which blip to convert, but I would presume taht the closest blip would be converted. I know the rules don't say that blips block LOS, but since each blip represents at least one genestealer, I think it would be fair to say they do.
There's my take on it.

I must admit, that does make sense... :)

Does anyone know how the previous editions handled it?

Cheers :)

~ Tim
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby timewizard » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:15 pm

I'm going to look at earlier edition's rules. Let you know in a bit if it's covered.
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby Spack » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:28 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:But the diagram never mentions retaining facing, just how much it costs "to move into an adjacent square". So is the diagram note wrong, i.e. it doesnt necessarily cost 2 AP to move into a square behind the model, as long as you arent worried about maintaining facing?


The rulebook is showing what you can do as a single action. It'll cost 2 APs if you move backwards, and it'll cost 2 APs to turn, move to the same square, and then turn to face the same direction. It doesn't matter which way you do it, it costs 2 APs. The rulebook has diagrams and examples for the basic moves - it doesn't stop you combining moves to achieve the same as you could do in a single move. If it started trying to cover all the different ways of moving to an adjacent square there would be loads of redundant examples and it would probably confuse things.

Step back, stop looking for loopholes, and just read the rules for what they - very simple, very clear, and little (if any) room for abuse.
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:48 pm

Spack wrote:The rulebook is showing what you can do as a single action.

An the turn is "part of the same action". :?
(its not an extra action, and doesnt allow a 2nd response from the SM player or a 2nd Overwatch shot etc - it is all a single action)

Spack wrote:It'll cost 2 APs if you move backwards, and it'll cost 2 APs to turn, move to the same square, and then turn to face the same direction. It doesn't matter which way you do it, it costs 2 APs.

But you can move to those squares for just 1 AP, right?
(If the diagram showed the 'stealer facing the same direction in the destination squares, or showed arrows to indicate how the model had moved, then fair enough - but instead its just talking about moving into the squares)

Spack wrote:The rulebook has diagrams and examples for the basic moves - it doesn't stop you combining moves to achieve the same as you could do in a single move. If it started trying to cover all the different ways of moving to an adjacent square there would be loads of redundant examples and it would probably confuse things.

So you agree that you could perform a "sideways move" after a free 90 degree turn to move into the square behind you for 1 AP?
(and then you could perform a "forwards move" after the next free 90 degree turn in order for a 2nd AP, effectively allowing the model to turn 180 degrees for free while moving 2 squares backwards)

:?:

Spack wrote:Step back, stop looking for loopholes, and just read the rules for what they - very simple, very clear, and little (if any) room for abuse.

Im not trying to find any loopholes - I am just trying to understand the rules before I teach them to anybody. My opponent at GW said it worked, and I am just trying to figure out whether it does or not.

To reiterate: if I turn 90 degrees to the right and then step sideways, am I to the right of where I started or am I behind where I started? :?:

Note that this is different to stepping sideways and then turning 90 degrees to the right...

(if it didnt matter whether you turned before or after you moved, why do you get a choice as to how you do it? Why didnt it just say it happens at the end - like when a Marine moves/turns and shoots for a single action - or why didnt it say "it doesnt matter which"?)

Cheers :)

~ Tim
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby timewizard » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:01 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:
Does anyone know how the previous editions handled it?

Cheers :)

~ Tim

I have a copy of the rules, and they show a marine opening a door with 2 blips next to each other in the corridor beyond. The rules say that the first blip (the one closest to the marine) performs an involuntary conversion and the genestealers are placed. If it is a 3 stealer blip, one is lost becausee it cannot be placed on a blip counter. The next blip cannot be involutarily converted because the marine does not have LOS to it, it is blocked by the stealers.
So they seem to have said that if there are a number of blips in a line that fall into the LOS of a marine, the first one in line would be converted first.
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:05 pm

Thanks TW - works for me! :)

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Re: Space Hulk

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Another question: p13 of the Mission book, on the map for Mission II Exterminate, on the bottom end of the map, to the right, there is what appears to be an entry point, but it doesnt have a purple arrow. Should this T-junction have been a straight section, should it branch off into a dead end section, or should it be an actual entry point? Its the only example of this sort of incomplete map section that I can find in the whole book, and its not like they had used all the dead ends or anything... :?

Is this a copy of an older mission/map? If so, there might be some precedent for how this was supposed to look. :)

~ Tim
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby timewizard » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:46 pm

In the original, there was an entry point there. Might have been changed for the new version. I always thought it odd that there were 5 entry points at the top of the map but 6 at the bottom. Then I thought they might have needed another "3" corridor section but didn't have it so they used a "T" intersection because it is 3 squares long.
Here is a link to the mission that I found. One thing though, how's your French?
TW

EDIT, just double checked the link, from the first page under Scénarii click "MISSIONS" then "EXTERMINATION"
TW
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Re: Space Hulk

Postby mattjgilbert » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:02 am

sorry guys - not got time to help answer all these right now. busy and going to prague again this afternoon. might be the weekend before I have a proper catchup here and on 'seer. The FAQ will have to wait for it's next version then too.

Tim.. you are right about staying on overwatch when clearing a jam. This is a change from 1st ed I missed. Makes more sense now.
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