Make me a fun list,Or i'll send old people round with sticks

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:01 pm

OK based on these 2 threads I made a list
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... ord+demons
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... ost3225843

I figure taking time with prep for lists can be an immersive element (like going to the smithy in an RPG to pick a sort of axe), need not be anti fun, in fact is a FUN regulator (e.g. as I said in Matts thread it prevents all termies/ork bikes or all flyers or some other absurdity/theme where someone turns up and is like wearing the same hat at ascot in the rock scissor paper of it all).. and certainly doesn't have to be divisive ...
I'm soon going to be fighting someone who "ONLY PLAYs FOR FUN!!!!".where as I ascribe to (to quote grimtuff's sig). "The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused."
Tips are welcome as to how to reconcile differences...I mean folks who *only* play for fun actually want to lose so they can be righteous right?? I mean tactics=cheese, maths=cheese,knowing your list=cheese,rules= cheese, any peg that fills the hole in someone elses list=cheese
I currently play a "what do you want to face, choose stuff or pick any list" or gimmicks (swapping etc) habit generally against the non-Mr6s but it generally means they still think I fixed the game ..(and it doesn't work for pick ups)
And it means I’m not very involved in my minis or their wellbeing.(where as a list = my men, I’ve stuck my name to them like martin luthor :lol:

)
So I’m drafting a “FUN” list.

I'm taking a suitably nerfed army.. based primarily on the thread above,where me and wyndstar poke fun on codex crapicuos.(it couldn’t be smurf,ork or elder as they don’t have dud options..so chaos sprung to mind) It contains 4 elements I have minimal control over.. the only optimising I've done is there is a DP in there (cos he's cheap, If I had to spend more I'd have to drop mr flargargle gargle driblle) and there are plague marines in there..because I figure I really ought to field 600 points properly or I'll be too patronising. I also swapped the chosen for havocs due to my personal hatred of all things outflank.

Its primarily assault..it has 4 big things in (which I’m worried about being called up on)Only really has 8 ranged guns and off that only 4 might hurt a landraider (grouped for maximum dieing) No oblits- no lash only 1 DP, I could I guess swap the PMs for regular guys and then squeeze in a couple of demons.. but i don't think I'd have any guns at that point.

But cmon...rate my list FOR FUNN :5bullwhip

(and if necessary tone it down for me)If folks think this list=the very incarnation of fun itself I can on request bring it to the meet. :lol:

Ljundhammer · by **Ljundhammer** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:19 pm

If you want to nerf it:

Take out the aspiring champs, then your GD can't be summoned. Take some lesser daemons & no icons.

The DP looks cheeeze! Take a Lord, khorne, Daemon weapon, plasma pistol, melta bombs & run him directly in front of your dread with a lascannon (2x ccw might do something!) Again, the defiler, the CCWs might do something, take the reaper & HF option.

Is the list fun? Well it would be for the 4 turns & 1/2 hour it takes to play it... If you like kicking kittens to death...

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:27 pm

Ljundhammer wrote:Take out the aspiring champs, then your GD can't be summoned. Take some lesser daemons & no icons.

The DP looks cheeeze! Take a Lord, khorne, Daemon weapon, plasma pistol, melta bombs & run him directly in front of your dread with a lascannon (2x ccw might do something!)

Ahh but if you read the tactica stupidchaos.. I advocate having a big khorne lord with demon weapon at 200 points and then summoning to him (so he dies before he does anything) we really did master bad options in that thread..
An IC fitting with the army that is something other than a DP could be a good idea for HQ though

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:26 pm

killmaimburn wrote:I'm soon going to be fighting someone who "ONLY PLAYs FOR FUN!!!!".
...I mean folks who *only* play for fun actually want to lose so they can be righteous right?? I mean tactics=cheese, maths=cheese,knowing your list=cheese,rules= cheese, any peg that fills the hole in someone elses list=cheese
I'm taking a suitably nerfed army..

how about i put it like this:

this is your opportunity to use all the units and options that you would love to use all the time 'if only their rules didnt suck', without feeling bad about it.

doesnt that sound better?

killmaimburn wrote:But cmon...rate my list FOR FUNN (and if necessary tone it down for me)If folks think this list=the very incarnation of fun itself I can on request bring it to the meet.

i think thats a brilliant list for this sort of match-up. if i was taking my IG to the WHW meet (instead of Kate's 'anti-MEQ' Eldar) i would definately give this list a game (remember that my current IG list is an excerise in using dust covered models).

good on ya, KMB.

~ Tim

mattjgilbert · by **mattjgilbert** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:03 am

killmaimburn wrote:I'm soon going to be fighting someone who "ONLY PLAYs FOR FUN!!!!".where as I ascribe to (to quote grimtuff's sig). "The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused."

People who play for fun surely still like to win though? They probably don't mind losing that much so long as they had fun doing it and had a good game. That means the got the point of the game but failed to make the objective (there can only be one winner after all).

killmaimburn wrote:Tips are welcome as to how to reconcile differences...I mean folks who *only* play for fun actually want to lose so they can be righteous right??

I don't think so? Do they?

killmaimburn wrote:I mean tactics=cheese, maths=cheese,knowing your list=cheese,rules= cheese, any peg that fills the hole in someone elses list=cheese

I'm not sure I get what you are saying.

killmaimburn wrote:
'Deamon prince Androgenous', (wings)-130

'Mr indecisive' a summoned greater demon=100

'Mr unreliable'- Chaos dreadnought 2ccws Extra armour=115

'Tha possibly hard ass or maybe really fast boy band of doom'- 9 possessed with champion with icon of tzeentch plus rhino=319

'Mr blonds' 6plague marines fist 2 plas rhino-243

'I wanna be MR blond, I'll be MR blacks' 6plague marines fist 2 plas rhino-243

" flargargle gargle driblle" Chaos spawn-40

'Mr shooty shooty death' 5 havocs 4 melta guns, 1 naked champ in a rhino.-165

'My armour is weak but my mind is strong', defiler with 2 extra CCWs.-150
1505 points--29 models + 5 things with AV

Well without looking at a chaos codex I can't really comment and that could be a tournament army* for all I know

I take it it's not though

Surely the point of a "fun" list is one that will be tactically challenging to play for you and your opponent or one which includes combos or units you've not tried before to see how they work out. If you hate the list or can't see it working it's only going to be fun if you fancy a challenge at giving it a go "for fun". If your list above fits those things then it's a "fun" list is it not? If you know your opponent is a good one, pick a list that will make a good game. If you are playing a new person, pick a tamer list to help them along.

*5 points over

killmaimburn wrote:But cmon...rate my list FOR FUNN (and if necessary tone it down for me)If folks think this list=the very incarnation of fun itself I can on request bring it to the meet.

Other than the things I attempted to note above what is "fun" is probably pretty hard to nail and is highly subjective. Do you want to play a game using that list to see what happens? Do you think you will enjoy playing that game? If the answers are yes then use the list, if not...change it!

If (and I'm not sure whether you are or not) you are suggesting my method or selecting a new list before each game means I "ONLY PLAY FOR FUN!!" and think tactics, knowing the rules etc is cheese... then I'm not sure how I created that impression? I'm not about to pick an all scout force with bolt pistols only to take on a tank company...

LordMalekTheRedKnight · by **LordMalekTheRedKnight** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:28 am

totally off topic but:

mattjgilbert wrote:I'm not about to pick an all scout force with bolt pistols only to take on a tank company...

actually... thats 60 Scouts (+ a HQ) @ 1000 pts.

thats an awful lot of Infiltrating/Outflanking (Move Through Cover) Krak Grenades (and Bolt Pistol shots) at Rear Armour (AV10). :twisted:

how could an opponent hope to kill them all before getting swamped?

thats also up to 12 Scoring Units too...

could be a fun experiment, actually.

~ Tim

ruffian4 · by **ruffian4** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:34 am

killmaimburn wrote:
'Deamon prince Androgenous', (wings)-130

Aka known as "Mr." Both, I suppose???

Doesn't that mean you need a mr neither (any loyalist astartes GELDING) and something with the mark of Slaanesh (mr. inbetween)???

3 dreads in an equilateral triangle praying for 1's?

Call it an apoc game, ignore the foc chart and just take daemons from the chaos marine dex?
Declare a strictly wysiwyg game and bring the wrong army?

Totally unrelated, but I have yet to see a proxy daemon prince modelled as a musical box spinning balerina...

Dog slobber.

killmaimburn · by **killmaimburn** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:29 am

mattjgilbert wrote:[ People who play for fun surely still like to win though?...]
If (and I'm not sure whether you are or not) you are suggesting my method or selecting a new list before each game means I "ONLY PLAY FOR FUN!!" and think tactics, knowing the rules etc is cheese... then I'm not sure how I created that impression?

Oh no its not an anti Matt rant..allow me to illustrate its a 1D line, with far out GTers at one end, who have put care attention to their only playing that list all year , slowly removed imperfections know every facet of every unit and how to apply their strengths against different races to maximum effect..somewhere down from there you have me (I dare say‘our lot’), I make lists to fight all races..but I give up when they get near perfect...(this also includes folks who write lists out fresh each time but with a plan, and with knowledge of its application) then you have a big swath in the middle who might seek to learn their units(maybe they might read a tactica but maybe don’t think outside the box mid game, or maybe they don’t read a tactica and they only use havoc squads for ranged shooty)..might know(/use) some good unit builds, might know how to apply certain units to good effect based on positive passed experience or reading....this covers a micro scale where for example based on your thread I'd say your view was closer to mine than spacks was...(as he says he plays and lists without a tactic in mind) and then you zoom down the line to ...folks who set up a devastator squad with no line of sight to anything..and if offered the chance to tactically reappraise lasscannons facing a wall.. they turn down the offer of redeploying..(don't believe me? LH saw that one,I've met that more than I’ve met WAAC)
I’m sure some folks who “ONLY PLAY FOR FUN!!” are actually manifesting 40k masochism, its just I’m not a sadist..so its tricky.

ruffian4 wrote:Doesn't that mean you need a mr neither

maybe the indecisive summoned demon should have "been done" thats why he turns up when you whistle.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:actually... thats 60 Scouts (+ a HQ) @ 1000 pts.
thats an awful lot of Infiltrating/Outflanking (Move Through Cover) Krak Grenades (and Bolt Pistol shots) at Rear Armour (AV10).
how could an opponent hope to kill them all before getting swamped?

As king off topic, I welcome this topic..
60 scouts coming on piecemeal from a random point, with my tanks arses hanging off the middle of my board edge.. with you have at best 12 weapons that can hit me..needing 4s to hit and *at least* 3 to glance.... on the turn after they turn up cos they can't move and shoot the weapons that can hurt tanks..
There is a reason why the tacticas on scouts in warseer got heated (EDIT LINKY- http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php? ... ostcount=5 )..lord I love them but they do suck compared to the rest of the codex..(still better than spawn)(have shrike and some bikes..its still not good)