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1500pt Imperial Guard List

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1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby cgra1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:04 am

Hello Guys.

After playing with almost every other army and not enjoying it, Ive finally found an army I can actually relate to.
So I’m in the process of play testing my Imperial Guard, I have come up with the following:

HQ
Company Commander with Powerfist, Voxcaster, Lascannon
Officer of the Fleet - (Just to upset those that rely on outflanking and Deep strike)

Troops
Platoon Commander with powerfist, Lascannon
4XInfantry squads with 4XAutocannons, 2XFlamers, 2X Plasma Guns, 2X Sgts with Power Weapon, 2X Sgts with Plasma Pistols
2X Commissars

Veterans with 3XPlasma and powerfist 1XAutocannon in Vendetta (3 Lascannons)

Veterans with 3XMeltaguns and Powerfist in Chimera with Hvy Flamer

Fast
Banewolf with Multi Melta

Heavy
Leman Russ Battle tank with Lascannon and Battle Cannon

Manticore Missile Launcher


The Basic tactic I have been using is the standard sit and shoot. The Infantry Platoon either splits into 2X20 man squads with a commissar in each giving them the chance to tie up assault units.
The Command Squad and the Platoon Squad set up close enough to issue orders and to provide heavier support to deal with that which the Assault cannons cant.
The Bane wolf uses its speed to deal with those that get to close with the Melta to open transports and the flamer template to boil the occupants.
The Leman Russ has proven very successful in killing whatever it shoots at and is built for splitting transports and heavy support.
The Vendetta normally outflanks to kill fire support and hopefully drop troops on objectives and counter another with a last minute flight across the board.
The Vets in the Chimera are supposed to be for objective grapping but they normally end up killing what remains of the assault element that has battered there heads against one of the stubborn infantry platoons.
The Manticore is there because I like the model.

So that’s the plan but in reality what happens is My Infantry hold up for 3-4 turns but i struggle to get anything other than the Vendetta across the the board.
Can you suggest a unit to replace the Manticore that would allow me to get troops acros the board and put pressure on the enemy objective, thereby alieviating my own allowing me to do more than fight on my side of the table?

Thanks
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby Ljundhammer » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:31 am

cgra1 wrote:HQ
Company Commander with Powerfist, Voxcaster, Lascannon
Officer of the Fleet - (Just to upset those that rely on outflanking and Deep strike)

Troops
Platoon Commander with powerfist, Lascannon
4XInfantry squads with 4XAutocannons, 2XFlamers, 2X Plasma Guns, 2X Sgts with Power Weapon, 2X Sgts with Plasma Pistols
2X Commissars

Veterans with 3XPlasma and powerfist 1XAutocannon in Vendetta (3 Lascannons)

Veterans with 3XMeltaguns and Powerfist in Chimera with Hvy Flamer

Fast
Banewolf with Multi Melta

Heavy
Leman Russ Battle tank with Lascannon and Battle Cannon

Manticore Missile Launcher


Honestly there's loads of fat in here - the power fists (in all cases) aren't needed & simpley burn points. Power weapons on the sargeants are also wasted - they don't kill enough & are prone to being shot by commisars - plasma pistols as well are massively redundant. I'd argue that plasma guns in line squads are also points wasted.

Lose the power fists = 60 points
Lose the power weapons = 20 points
Lose the plasma pistols = 20 points
Drop Plasma guns to flamers in infantry squads = 20points
Drop single vocaster (doesn't do anything alone) = 5 points

Total saved = 125 points

Now, it looks like you have either too many, or too little vehicles. The LR, manticore, and Chimera can go to give you an AirCav army with blob support:

Remove LR, manicore & chimera = 380 points
Remove banewolf to give more room for FA slots = 135pts

Total to play with = 640pts

Add 2 vendettas = 260pts
Add 1 melta vet squad = 100pts
Total still left = 280pts
Use for chimeras to protect blob squads, artillery, hydras, or add another Valk/vendetta & vet squad.

Or you could go with AV12 spam:

Remove LR = 165points
Total to play with = 290 pts

Add banewolf/devil dog/hellhound: 135 points
Add 2 x hydra = 150 points
If you drop the vendetta you xcan fit in another melta vet squad in a chimera with a bit of trimming... I'd probably drop the manticore in that case, as you're getting enough melta to take out land raiders & use the points for moar stuff.

cgra1 wrote:So that’s the plan but in reality what happens is My Infantry hold up for 3-4 turns but i struggle to get anything other than the Vendetta across the the board.
Can you suggest a unit to replace the Manticore that would allow me to get troops acros the board and put pressure on the enemy objective, thereby alieviating my own allowing me to do more than fight on my side of the table?

Thanks


The problem is:
You don't have enough men
You don't have enough vehicles

At 1500 you'll need to go one way or the other really...

Here's my list for comparison (which isn't a million miles away from yours)

CCS - 3 x melta, chimera

PCS - 3 x flamer
2 x infantry, autocannons, commisar
2 x infantry, autocannons, commisar

Vets - 3 x melta, chimera

Vets - 3 x melta, chimera

Vets - 3 x plasma, chimera

Stormtroopers x 5 - 2 x melta

Banewolf - smoke launchers

Hydra

Hydra

Basilisk - enclosed crew compartment

There's multi-redundant melta for LR destruction.
There's multi redundant autocannons & multi-lasers for light transport killing
There's enough shots to take out a hoard army if properly set up
Nothing can hide from me due to the bassie & the stormies
There's AP3 killers everywhere

It's a bit template nowadays, but in my defence - mine was first!

But compare mine to yours:
AV12: mine = 8, yours = 4
AV14: mine = 0, yours = 1
Infantry: mine = 85, yours = 71
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby cgra1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:49 am

Thanks

Some great advice there that I will take on board. The Vox casters are in each of the 20man squads as well, btw just forgot to add them in the list, and are there for the reroll on the orders.

Im concerned about the loss of the Powerfists, and powerweapons, as although there only strength 3 and strength 6, they have served me well in most of my games, Killing the last Incubi with the forgotten Str 6 Powerfist makes Mr king Cry.

I agree with you over the Plasmas as i found them to be a waste in the infantry platoons, would you advise flamers or grenades as replacements? I normally find that by the time the enemy are in flamer range I don’t kill enough to stop the charge.
I like the Basilisk but am concerned over the minimum range as most opponents at the moment are assaulty and are within minimum range very fast, Hence the LR battle cannon instead

Ive been thinking about getting another Valkyrie or Vendetta as the lone one performs very well and a second supporting one would help out alot.
Not sure whether to use a Valkyrie for the large templates it can kick out.
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby killmaimburn » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:09 pm

cgra1 wrote:I like the Basilisk but am concerned over the minimum range as most opponents at the moment are assaulty and are within minimum range very fast, Hence the LR battle cannon instead

You NEED MORE SPECIAL RULES..(no really you don't guard are foul)
p53 guard codex, only the griffon and collusos ignore the 5th ed ruleset and forbid you firing directly.
The basilisk therefore follows.p58 BRB inc this bit
"If fired directly at the target, they are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons (ignoring the minimum
range in the weapon’s profile)."
I based a whole load of tactics purely on this new mechanic and whirlwinds..(still doesn't make them awesome, but it means that you shouldn't be worried about not being able to fire a a basilisk)
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby cgra1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:13 pm

Well I never..... Just goes to show what a little reading will do... Thanks mate, appreciate the help
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby killmaimburn » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:17 pm

Of course you know that means you can move and shoot (directly) now too..Right? (thats 8 more of kings men dead in dawn of war you owe me :D)
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby cgra1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:32 pm

:twisted: Excellent
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby Ljundhammer » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:51 pm

cgra1 wrote:Thanks

Some great advice there that I will take on board. The Vox casters are in each of the 20man squads as well, btw just forgot to add them in the list, and are there for the reroll on the orders.


Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. Comisars in line squads make them unlikely to fail (and you shouldn't be using orders here anyway - except "get back in the fight"). And you should have enough vet squads that if one fails an order it doesn't matter.

cgra1 wrote:Im concerned about the loss of the Powerfists, and powerweapons, as although there only strength 3 and strength 6, they have served me well in most of my games, Killing the last Incubi with the forgotten Str 6 Powerfist makes Mr king Cry.


It won't rack up to the extra vet squad with 3 plasma/melta guns you can afford if you drop all the crazy stuff. I'll wager that. A 10 man squad in combat is a dead ten man squad. Adding extra costs to that is generally a waste. There will always be exceptions though...

cgra1 wrote:I agree with you over the Plasmas as i found them to be a waste in the infantry platoons, would you advise flamers or grenades as replacements? I normally find that by the time the enemy are in flamer range I don’t kill enough to stop the charge..


I don't bother with them. Blob squads are tarpits. If they fire the auto cannons all the better, but they aren't there to kill things primarily, they are there to take your opponent's uber squads out of the game for a few turns while you demolish the rest of his army.

cgra1 wrote:I like the Basilisk but am concerned over the minimum range as most opponents at the moment are assaulty and are within minimum range very fast, Hence the LR battle cannon instead


KMB has dealt with this. But the Basie is the weak point in this list. It's primary purpose is to make space marine players concentrate on that rather than the rest of the army. If you set up right it can take quite a bit of punishment.

Other ordnance may serve you better, but I love the bassie.

cgra1 wrote:Ive been thinking about getting another Valkyrie or Vendetta as the lone one performs very well and a second supporting one would help out alot.
Not sure whether to use a Valkyrie for the large templates it can kick out.


Never used either - the rules headaches are enough to put me off! I like my chimeras too much to sacrifice boots on the ground for flashy toys.

Just to say, you won't win many friends using my list, I generally only pull it out to annoy KMB!
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby cgra1 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:04 pm

Thanks again mate, I dont have any friends anyway so..... :lol:
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby KInG » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:04 am

do i recall a certain khorne list ripping that list to pieces james..? ;)
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:54 am

Never,don't believe it, your khorne list is pansy.
You've never even dared bring it to the table if I'm in the building. And James' list is much worse..it takes the critical mass concept (like the 4th ed dreads and termies shooty one that forcefully increased the size of your nether passage) and quadrupled it.
The only thing that stands a chance is stuff that sits more than 32"s away av13 or higher (to withstand the effective but weak alpha of the chimera and hydras) and has 2 shedloads of medium anti tank to take away its mobility.(Vendetta spam/longtooth spam as long as its not dawn of war etc etc).

I would say more.. but I think I just need to put £2/nice pint on *james* kicking your demon list (as is/was, no last minute tailoring or swapping boxes or forgetting to bring them..or the other excuses you've used to hide from me in the past)
Cgra may..but he needs to do a james and live in a shed for a year becoming a ninja master of , "no that is 31.15" your out by 0.0X of an inch" and the rules of super obscuring by cock block repetition.(He also needs some judges around to make sure you don't make any rules calls :D)
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby Ljundhammer » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:14 pm

KInG wrote:do i recall a certain khorne list ripping that list to pieces james..? ;)


Nope, it's a refined version of the list you scraped a draw from IIRC...
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby BANE » Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:23 pm

I think IG are the army that benefit most from actually military tactics, so rather than spending a loads of points on fists and power weapons on stubborn units which will keep them in a prolonged combat that they will lose eventually anyway, I think your points would be better spent on extra units that can rapid fire the assaulting units that finish your squad off in one turn.
Remember strength in depth and mutually supporting arcs of fire.
And more guns than the enemy!
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby ruffian4 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:31 am

I would second the dumping of most close combaty stuff.

I started out with 2 platoon commanders with pow weapon and bolt pistol + company comsec with bolt pistol and power fist.
They're all starkers now.

For plasma and melta, they are pretty much reserved for company comm sec, inq stormers and vets.

Half my infantry are dedicated sit and shoot, so hbolt + grenade.
Half do the leg work, so flamers.

Mind you, I rarely take any transport, a chimera = a squad with flamer.
I have 3 chims built with 2 more in the pipeline and it just makes me wonder where 50 blokes went!
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Re: 1500pt Imperial Guard List

Postby KInG » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:39 pm

so how do your guys grab objectives, etc Ruffian? Just run them... ? but then they ain't shooting.... :|
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