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High Elves

For posting army lists, battle reports, and discussing tactics

Re: High Elves

Postby markb » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:27 am

I agree with Cobby, its horses for courses., what works for one person won't always work for someone else. I always like to try and go for a balanced army in character and try to win with ability (not usually the most successful approach!) rather than my ability to manipulate lists. That way when you do win its more satisfying.
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Re: High Elves

Postby Cobby » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:44 am

2000 pts list

Archmage lvl 4 with Annulian Crystal & Ring of Fury (High Magic) = 340
Mage lvl 2 with The Seer Staff of Sapphery (Lore of Metal) = 165
Mage lvl 2 with Siler Wand (varies depending on my mood :twisted: )

CORE -
Archers x 10 = 110
Spearmen x 19 with full command = 196
Spearmen x 19 with full command = 196

SPECIAL -
Swordmasters x 18 with full command and Talisman of Loec for champion and Banner of Sorcery = 360
White Lions x 10 with full command and Skeinsliver for the champion = 187

RARE -
Bolt Throwers x 3 = 300

TOTAL = 1999

For 1500 pts would drop roughly 1 unit of spreamen, 1 bolt thrower and 1 lvl 2 Mage.

This is just a nice a simple list that for me that works well. Trying some chariot lists at present but not got them on the table as of yet.
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Re: High Elves

Postby BigJim » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:07 am

Hi Sam,

Don't know how much you remember of the game you played when you first came to Armageddon Inc - I played you with my High Elves.

We played at 1500 points - and I used my no mage list. I favour just a Noble plus BSB. Even when you step upto 2000 points this is still a very viable option.

I would always caution against stacking too many cards in the magic deck - I'm not ani-magic by any means - when I do 2.5k+ lists I usually include Teclis.

If you were playing the list Cobby has suggested - consider what would happen if you rolled low for the 1st 2 turns for number of magic dice - over a 3rd of your points would have nothing to do.

Good luck
Jim
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Re: High Elves

Postby Cobby » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:54 am

Having a low roll on the magic actually helps the list even more. if you say had four or five dice and your opponent 2 or 4 you then have the chance to channel your 3 mages plus the banner of sapphery for d3 extra dice. I then find I dominate more as my opponent has no dice to dispel and the level mage becomes more dangerous with adding his level to the casting values.

I do like the idea of non magic lists with the elves and I get to use my Dragon. Got a big warhammer game planned in a weeks time 6000pts a side so curious to see how the magic plays out in such a big game.
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Re: High Elves

Postby BigJim » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:34 pm

For big games - anything over 3k - the magic system really doesn't scale well compared to the previous edition. Will be interesting to hear how it works out in your 6k game.

No magic for HE works very well. I played took a 1500 point no magic list to a tournament - every opponent I played was surprised by the lack of magic - and I won 3, drew 1 out of the 6 games. My 2 losses were down to poor luck on the scenarios we were playing.

3 times over that weekend I played against someone fielding both a L4 & L2 mages - and managed to secure decent wins against all of them. My biggest problem that weekend was the 2 games where I faced Steam Tanks. These are a real obstacle for HE who lack the collection of S7 monsters who can take those apart with ease.
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Re: High Elves

Postby samuelgrimwade » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:56 pm

Hi Jim, yeah I remember the game. The only thing that would annoy me with not having magic is all those power dice in the magic phase and not using them, even if it's taking a few level 1s or 2s and only casting the low power level spells avaliable. get some use out of them. But then I am always thinking, 100 points for a mage, I could get a bolt thrower for that and have something that I know is going to perform well in the game (or at least is going to perform something!)

At the moment I'm thinking of just having 2 level 2 mages, both with High Magic and deffinately having shield of sapphery and whatever else gets rolled.

So my basic army would come out omething like this:-

Lvl 1 Mage - 100
Lvl 1 Mage - 100
Noble, BSB, Armour of Caledor, Gaurdian Phoenix, Great Weapon - 147

40 Spearmen - full command, Standard of Discipline - 400
13 Swordmasters - Champion - 195
13 Swordmasters - Champion - 195


This comes in at 1161. I suppose my real indecision is what to take from then on to make the army to 1500pt (firstly) and then 2000pts from there and I'm trying not too have to buy too many more models.

I've got a chariot, a bolt thrower, 10 Silver helms, Mounted Mage, 3 (!) Nobles / Princes on Griffons. I'm contemplating adding the Silver Helms and the Mounted Mage to accompany them. Up to 1500pts I'll be using the one large unit of spearmen, when I got to 2000pts I'll split that to 2 units of 25.

But then I look at the dragon princes and could definitely see myself using at least one unit of these - how do people feel about this, 2 units of 5 or one unit of 10? I'm thinking for the extra points they should definitely be taken over Silverhelms!

Just worked out for 1500pts, i could take what I've got above and then add 2 units of 5 Dragon princes with Champions! Hmm, might be nice to have some 'fist' to punch out small units with, then when I get to 2000pts add in the 10 Silver Helms to back them up! (Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself to buy the Dragon princes!).

Well I've got a trip to GW today anyway, might have a long hard look at Dragon Princes!

I think Im fairly indecisive about what I want, wether it's models that are going to looks really nice and be a joy to paint, or wether I want to kick everyones arse! Maybe for my first Warhammer army (In a very long time) I should stick to what I'm going to enjoy and worry about trying to win games with my next army! - Dragon princes it is then I suppose!

What are peoples thoughts on the Dragon Princes in games?

Sam
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Re: High Elves

Postby BigJim » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:39 am

If you are going for cavalry then I would choose Dragon Princes over Silverhelms - And I would go for 1 unit of 10 over 2 of 5 - just think about what would happen if you lost 2 out of a unit - then 10 is still viable whereas a unit of 5 would only be good for taking on warmachines. Plus the block of 10 looks nicer :D

Prince on a Griffin is a nice characterful model - and if used carefully can be incredibly useful - but it is always vulnerable to shooting.

If your thinking about character and effectiveness then Prince on Dragon is suitably scary - and if properly equipped can be very scary on the flanks of big units.

HE are a great choice for character and look. If you do a decent paint job (unlike me!!) then they will look awesome on the field and should also perform well.
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Re: High Elves

Postby Ogregut » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:16 pm

I agree with Big Jim, take one unit of 10 over two units of 5. Im starting to realise that cavalry in 8th edition need to be big as in at least 15 strong, however Dragon Princes with their 2 attacks can get away with just being 10 strong. The one downside of DP's is they are only S3, so again magic is very useful to buff them, casting wildform on puts them on par with chaos knights.

I also agree about the monsters, if used right can be nasty. I think alot of people still have 7th Ed in mind with dragons as you dont see many now and they won't break units easily any more. However put the crown of command and other killy/protective shiny stuff on the character fly him in the flanks of a unit and watch him go. If he loses, chances are you won't run, if the enemy reforms to face they expose their flank to the rest of your army. It a great way to hold up a big unit.
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Re: High Elves

Postby samuelgrimwade » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:26 pm

Think a dragon moujted prince might have to wait till I've got to 3000pts at least. Although you are inspiring me to use the noble / prince on griffon for some tests. But even he would be a massive point investment, 85 Noble, 200 (odd) griffon, 35(?) Crown of Command, Great Weapon, hmm costly!

I've settled on the deai of Dragon princes eventually, but for the time being I have a unit of 10 Silver Helms so will amke use of them in 1500pt games, but my jump to 2000pts is going to be 10 Dragon princes - Models are great and they will be doing some damage on the table (or at least drawing alot of attention away from everything else.

I'm actually playing against Ogre Kingdom army on monday, so I'm tempted to try the dragon princes in units of 5, purely because I know the Ogre units will be smaller than me! 11 S5 attacks on the charge, 2s to hit (with rerolls), 3s to wound (Unless I get wildform off on them!) and no armour save, will do a lot of damage on the turn it charges and then hold the unit up for a turn before I smash my swordmasters into the side / front (depending on where the dragon princes charged).

Only thing in the whole army that worries me is going to be his characters! Whatever I can do to get rid of them. Thinking Magic to snipe them out of units.

Will have to see how it goes.

Anyway thanks for the advice help guys, between us all I've become set on getting 10 dragon princes to push my army to 2000pts - lovely models, decent on the table, good value for money £ wise - all big reasons to take for me!

Sam
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Re: High Elves

Postby markb » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:01 pm

Quick one, how do you get 2s to hit? the best you can get is 3s without a magic item? You will still get rerolls though. Don't forget as well though that Ogres are all 3 wounds and at least three attacks at S4 (6 for Ironguts). You will only be able to kill a maximum of three Ogres so if he has them ranked up you will be facing at least 10 attacks back with the champion. Their return attacks are going to hurt!
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Re: High Elves

Postby TheColonel » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:00 pm

If you are facing ogres try the magic weapon Foebane from the elf book, always needing 2+ to wound can be pretty handy
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Re: High Elves

Postby samuelgrimwade » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:45 pm

I was planning on hitting him in the side with the dragon princes if he has larger units (ranked up bulls), if they aren't ranked up then I fancy my chances in a frontal charge against them with dragon princes, he may strike back, but half will miss, a 3rd of the others wont wound and half of what's left will be saved by armour. feel pretty confident, also I'll have a mage running life who will be picking regrowth, to bring back any dragon princes that do go the way of the dodo.

with regard to 2+ to hit, thats my bad, thought if you doubled the weapong skills it made it 2s, just a hang over from when I used to play back in the day.

Not sure if I'll nee the foebane, most of the units I expect to do damage are either great weaponed armed or lances, so it's 3s to wound anyway.

Cheers for all the advice fells
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Re: High Elves

Postby BigJim » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:19 pm

A quick heads-up. If playing against ogres watch out for their magic!! It doesn't seem overly nasty - but with cheap to cast spells and things like +1T and +1S plus healing wounds spells - Units of bulls suddenly don't look like such easy work.

Ogres, trolls & minotaurs all did very nicely with the release of 8th Edition rules. I made the mistake of underestimating their potency when I played against them just before Xmas. Looked at my largely dead army that still hadn;t managed to kill a whole unit...Ok I did have a couple of unlucky dice - but not that many.
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Re: High Elves

Postby markb » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:11 pm

To be fair though BigJim, Ogres needed some sort of help, I had an Ogre army and never managed better than a draw under 6th/7th ed as it was virtually impossible to get rank bonuses due to stupidly high points costs for Bulls/Ironguts. On paper they looked nails but against ranked up units they struggled, it got worse under 7th ed when the number of models needed for a rank went from 4 to 5, I managed to get a couple of ranked units under 6th ed but it was just too many points under 7th so ended up selling them. Wish I'd kept them now. :(
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Re: High Elves

Postby BigJim » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:39 pm

Totally agree that they needed the help out - it has made them appropriately tough and as good in combat as they should be.

Ogres are now a totally viable army which they really struggled to be under 6th/7th edition.
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