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DreadBall

Re: DreadBall

Postby Baragash » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:14 pm

killmaimburn wrote:Wow you were angry straight away with Esteriol? And that led to the whole missiles are GW using you post?


Angry? No. Had an attack of *sigh* same ol same ol? Yes.

Baragash wrote:So to clarify, Stunty's complaint is that he made an uninformed purchase decision and that's the company's fault and not his. Sorry dude, unless there's more to that story, I've got no sympathy (in the same way I deserve no sympathy for the pain of cleaning up this shitcast mini when I should have returned it - the fault is mine).


Stunty wrote:replace them with mantic models because they were cheaper only to find out mantic models are S**t. I've chucked em all in the bin and uped my spending at GW to try to cleanse myself.


killmaimburn wrote:So you concur that the like for like model range are poor, and only someone illinformed would purchase them from mantic.. Interdasting.


Would you like to spot the bit where I already covered that in my long post or do you need my help?
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Re: DreadBall

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:41 pm

Baragash wrote:Angry? No. Had an attack of *sigh* same ol same ol? Yes.
I found it quite cathartic on the back of 5+ pages of why to hate 6th ed before playing it splattered over every thread, I had started to believe the only fallible thing in the universe was GW.

Baragash wrote:Would you like to spot the bit where I already covered that in my long post or do you need my help?
If you could, I read Stunty as not objecting to the aesthetics but the quality, and whilst I requoted the salient section on shitcast, you did not address the quality of general plastic mini, which I believe was the direct comparison he was raising and it appeared your insulted him for. (I myself am undecided on the matter, yes my undead are fairly fragile, just as the yellow plastic GW ones used to be.. they are aesthetically pleasing)

Really mantic is *a* big boy now, it can't rely on 'underdog fan triumphs ok',I pass comic shops with the starter sets in, who rabidly refuse to touch anything GW or in fact any other table system (they are *a* bottleneck).
As I have said, I say they are *as* bad.But I think for all your rage carried over from wherever else your arguing, you can distinguish between marbo and whoops slip up from what inhouse secret shorthand going into actual adverts to piggyback.Sees the guard codex GWtube video.."You too can play as your favourite war scarred maniac RAMBO TODAY".

EDIT
Ahh now its dewarseered(?) I can read it
Baragash wrote:
I find the reproach that Mantic are just copying GW pompous and shortsighted, especially when you consider that many, many companies that have tried to enter the tabletop market with more original concepts have had to close doors shortly after because too few people were willing to invest in something new.

So someone should only ever stand on the shoulders of giants, because nothing new ever grows is the defence.. well at least its about the most positive thing I've heard one of the jilted say about GW.
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Re: DreadBall

Postby estarriol » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:30 pm

Ok chill pill time folks.

I only commented on the similarities of games.

Mantic, the people from the compnay I have met have been great (including being next to them for 2 days at Triples in 2011, and having their painter (whose name escapes me sadly) liking our figures.

Figureswise, I love their ghouls, but the other4 have not hit the button with me. BUT that has a lot to do with the fact I already have multitudes of forces of those types from various manufacturers.

The Sci-Fi felt like an instant GW rip off though, Duck faced Squats were pushing a little close, but good luck to them.

But they are following the GW path, that can't be argued or denied, even if the end product has a different take, the game style and audience is the same.

Now if you want proper disgruntled ex-GW you go to Warlord.

Or Battlefront and their announcement that WW2 in 15mm is no longer wargaming, but the FOW Hobby, and from now on in their tourneys only BF models can be used (nothing has yet been said about all the stuff in lists they don't actually make yet).

Oh and for the record I quite like Kings of War rules 2nd ed, certainly more me than Warhammer.
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Re: DreadBall

Postby Baragash » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:31 pm

I didn't insult stunty, I just pointed out that unless there's more to the story Mantic is not at fault in the story as he told it. The irony that he needs to get over it by feeding money to a company that is actually awful well, what can I say?

Shitcast is an insult to GW, not stunty, that comment was merely a demonstration that I was practising what I preached ie it's my fault for putting up with it not GW's for selling it to me.

There is one big boy in the industry, GW, there are some toddlers, PP*, Battlefront etc. Mantic is not amongst them by any stretch.

*Have seen people estimating turnover in the £5m region to give you a sense of scale.

killmaimburn wrote:So someone should only ever stand on the shoulders of giants, because nothing new ever grows is the defence.. well at least its about the most positive thing I've heard one of the jilted say about GW.


I only take issue with someone holding Mantic to a standard of "originality" that no other gaming company, including GW, is expected to meet. It is a derivative industry, because everyone is speaking and working from a fairly common set of source material.


GW started making models for other people's games, remind me what your point was again?

So everyone that doesn't see the issue is automatically jilted?

killmaimburn wrote:If you could, I read Stunty as not objecting to the aesthetics but the quality


Then you'll have to explain how you're defining "quality" as being different from "aesthetic" in this context.

Then you can explain where I said the like-for-like model quality was poor.
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Re: DreadBall

Postby killmaimburn » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:18 pm

You’ll note that in mentioning crappycast, I am confirming your slur, rather than denying it. I am asking about the original point, and I am not thinking that a derisory name of a product line is an insult to him,as he is grown up and is not vested in a product or company to that level.

[stunty] “replace them” (as in like for like) “find out mantic models are S**t”
[baragash] “he made an uninformed purchase decision and that's the company's fault and not his”

In this instance it appears you made the jump that he found them ugly and he was in some way blindly ignorant and to blame for buying them, where as I assume he found them flimsy/substandard after purchase, which would be the companies fault.

Based on the interpretation we might both be right, but I’m fairly sure from comments off web that he means flimsy shoddy (and INb4 but GW flimsy , yes I have already equated my KOW purschases to GW similar above, and yes if he had contacted KOW representatives packaged up his models and sent them back they may have exchanged them as GW do when a product isn’t up to standard.(barrring crapcast) and yes I have already said I would have had them so be calm…)

If we now read the above that it was substandard, and your retort was that he was ill-informed and should have known better than to replace (like for like) that is where we achieve..
Baragash wrote:Then you can explain where I said the like-for-like model quality was poor.
.
fictional example- Some high elves, that everyone kept taking pictures of to show that actually they were GW scale and everything was the same but cheap as a selling point, a batch turn out to melt when in the sunlight for more than 3 minutes.If you were to say that the person who bought KOW high elves should have known better, do you suggest that the occurrence is widespread?I would suggest that this is a confirmation of poor quality by someone holding themselves to be better informed.
I understand you said you needed more information to not just blame the silly little consumer, but I thought I'd gone over it in the above.

The point,on the quote of the quote of the quote hmm, I was showing I’d read some tacked on forum wars quote about people who hadn’t elevated themselves to GW haters being pompous.And deciding to read a positive side in such irony.
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Re: DreadBall

Postby jlong05 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:50 pm

I am beginning to think everyone needs to take a step back and get a breath. This back and for this getting out of hand. Let's keep it civil in the pubic threads ok?
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Re: DreadBall

Postby Stunty » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:26 am

lol just got home looks like ive missed all the fun lol.
mantic are pants for lots of reasons that make sense in my head, probably shouldnt have made my posts and this isnt the thread for it apologise
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Re: DreadBall

Postby BANE » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:48 am

@ Stunty, I have removed my Sig because I have forgiving you for your crimes against me due to your part in this thread.
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Re: DreadBall

Postby ruffian4 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:02 am

jlong05 wrote:Let's keep it civil in the pubic threads ok?

What?
Are you talking about plaits or something?
Human origami for the hirsute?

I'm putting £5 on KMB, bony elbow to the solar plexus followed by moonsault and the pin.
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Re: DreadBall

Postby Red Devil » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:03 am

BANE wrote:@ Stunty, I have removed my Sig because I have forgiving you for your crimes against me due to your part in this thread.


Good work Al.

I must also apologise - I ask Stunty the question!?

Anyway, let that be it, and all future threads be about Dreadball (don't want KMB hurting his elbows).

On Dreadball, I think the board looks great! Really want to know what the various coloured sections do...
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PostThis post was deleted by Red Devil on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:07 am.
Reason: Part of a triple post

PostThis post was deleted by Red Devil on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:06 am.

Re: DreadBall

Postby mattjgilbert » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:15 am

Wow – just over posting a link to a new game? I appreciate that Mantic is not for everyone, but nor are GW, PP, MB Games or anyone else. Personally I’m having a huge amount of fun with Mantic and love what they are doing. If you don’t, fine. There need to be some better arguments sometimes as the typical ones attacking them (and it is attacking in a lot of cases*) are often pretty ill-thought out.

*not aimed at anyone here or even just this thread. You see it everywhere sadly.


Since the thread is derailed can we try and get it back on track? If someone wants to take up the debate in another thread then please do that. This thread was intended to discuss DreadBall.
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Re: DreadBall

Postby killmaimburn » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:31 am

I also would like to apologise, knowing quite how defensive people can be about not being GW I still baited them accusing them of such,even when as said I will play mantic, troltastic. :D

I like how its 'not bloodbowl' and has hexagons and talks about tron. Has anybody else seen tron uprising, its awesome Lance henrikson, Bruce Boxleitner,Elijah Wood.. the daft punk soundtrack and aeon flux style animation-done by disney.(better than recent game and film)
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Re: DreadBall

Postby mattjgilbert » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:47 am

Just in case anyone missed it, the DB kickstarter is live, already funded and passing stretch goals: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/174 ... ports-game

Jake will be on hand for some demos at the Mantic open day on the 29th September.

Any questions about the rules or the game, let me know and I'll answer as best I can.
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