Army lists for 6th

[Ljundhammer]

Yeah, tau as an army haven't come out of 6th well. Troops are still bad, kroot are pretty much unusable now. Stealth suits are rubbish for the reasons kmb states.


If they can take ig allies then it's not all bad as you can use their troops rather than your own & it's pretty fluffy that way too.

If you aren't maxing out on suits and using drones for wound allocation shenanigans then you're doing it wrong I'm afraid. Very similar to last edition, but without kroot really.

[killmaimburn]

3++ breakdown on tau in 6th
http://www.3plusplus.net/2012/07/tau-in ... lysis.html
But I'm not sure either of you are correct.
If,as our gaming is, becoming massively reliant on lasplas again.. and cover is much less good. I'd say expensive suits might suffer the eventual meta/dominant changes in list for 6th.
20+ shots from 30"s away of ap2 is going to bust up "elite" 12 suits.
I'm now building up a welling desire to play as orks and tau (separately) in quick succession.

[Ljundhammer]

Suits should be fine, you'll get around 12 or more at 1750 I think. Plus drones to tajke the first hits on each squad I think it's hard to take them all down via shooting. But they are very vulnerable to assault...

For a very good run down on tau, I go to everyone's favorite list builder, posted just after I thought of IG, but I think I agree with him that SM are better.
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/07/add ... os-part-i/

[markb]

Well after much deliberation I have decided to embrace the new allies rule for the Tau. Below are 2 lists, both use the same basic set of Tau units but there are 2 sets of allies, IG and SM.

Tau

HQ
Shas'O
Shield generator, plasma rifle, missile pod, hard wired multi tracker, BSF and drone controller with 2 shield drones
165

Elites
Crisis Team
3 XV8s. multi trackers, plasma rifles, missile pods. Shas'vre with hard wired BSF and drone controller with 2 gun drones
219

Crisis Team
3 XV8s. multi trackers, fusion blasters, missile pods. Shas'vre with hard wired BSF and drone controller with 2 gun drones
206

Troops
2 s 8 FWs
2x 80

Heavy Support
XV88. BSF
73

XV88. BSF

Hammerhead
Rail gun, burst cannons, BSF, multi tracker, disruption pod, target lock
175

SM Allies
HQ
Librarian
100

Elites
Dreadnought. Twin linked lascannon
135

Troops
Tac Squad
Lascannon, melta gun, melta bombs, Rhino
225

Tac Squad
Heavy Bolter, plasma gun, Rhino
215

IG Allies
HQ
CCS
Bolt pistol, lascannon, 2 plasma guns
102

Troops
1 Plt
PCS, lascannon, bolt pistol
3 squads, 2 autocannons, mortar, 3 grenade launchers

Missile launcher squad
332

Vet Squad
3 melta guns, carapace armour
130

Valkyrie
Heavy bolters
110

Total for both armies - 1746

Form a fluff point of view I cannot see how SM and Tau are Brothers in Arms but there you go. The IG would be used blobbed I think.

Quick one though. Could someone explain to me how blacksun filters work. In the FAQs it says it grants the user Night Vision. The BRB says as long as one model has Night Vision then the unit does but in the Tau codex it says that BSFs only grant the ability to the model equipped with it. Which interpretation takes precedence, the BRB or the Codex?

[killmaimburn]

Quick one though. Could someone explain to me how blacksun filters work. In the FAQs it says it grants the user Night Vision. The BRB says as long as one model has Night Vision then the unit does but in the Tau codex it says that BSFs only grant the ability to the model equipped with it. Which interpretation takes precedence, the BRB or the Codex?

Haven't glanced at lists, will though.
I'll start you a rules thread on this so others can see it, as I don't think peeps are reading this thread much.
40k-rules/blacksun-filters-question-for-markb-t6319.html

[markb]

Cheers, mate

[Ljundhammer]

I'm thinking about joining the Vendetta train! Toot toot. I was also impressed with HWSs from my game against Stunty on Sunday.

Here's the first draft, notes are below. 1750 because 1850 is for "the gays" (which I belive is the correct "youth" term)

HQ: CCS - 135
3 x melta guns
chimera - HF

Troop: Veterans - 155
3 x melta guns
chimera - HF

Troop: Veterans - 155
3 x melta guns
chimera - HF

Troop: Platoon - 745
PCS: 120
2 x melta guns, autocannon, krak grenades
chimera - HF
Infantry squad 1: 125
Autocannon, krak grenades
chimera - HF
Infantry squad 2: 125
Autocannon, krak grenades
chimera - HF
Special weapon squad 1: 75
2 x melta guns, demolition charge
Special weapon squad 2: 75
2 x melta guns, demolition charge
Heavy weapon squad 1: 75
3 x autocannon
Heavy weapon squad 2: 75
3 x autocannon
Heavy weapon squad 3: 75
3 x autocannon

Fast: Vendetta - 130

Fast: Vendetta - 130

Heavy: Leman Russ - 150

Heavy: Leman Russ - 150

Total: 1750 points
66 infantry in 10 scoring units (and one contesting)
10 vehicles

I've had to drop all my plasma guns to squeeze in 3 x heavy weapon squads, but on the plus side I do have 15 melta guns on 6 separate choices so it's not all bad...

It's a fairly simple concept:
SWS go in Vendettas
Everything else sets up.
The Russes are bait for lascannons etc, they perform a nice role, but essentially they're bullet magnets.
My opponent then has the choice of removing mobility through blowing up chimeras, or removing my anti-transport firepower through the HWSs, the infantry squads, and the PCS. I'm hoping it's a Hobson's Choice for my opponent, if he takes out my mobility, I take out his with the HWS & Russes. If he takes out my HWSs, then my melta guns advance toward him.
The vendattas then appear & either provide support to the advancing melta guns, or support to the HWS firepower.

Thoughts?

[killmaimburn]

Heavy weapon squad 1: 75
3 x autocannon
Heavy weapon squad 2: 75
3 x autocannon
Heavy weapon squad 3: 75
3 x autocannon

Its nice to see that I only have to tell you to do something 18 times and it slowly starts creeping in there.
I think your hobson may be a false dilema against AV13 fast spam (both the BA one we drafted and the necron one) Take out the lascannons which are also your mobility and then shoot you a lot.
But other than that its pretty funky.. it actually appears to take fliers into account which is nice

[Ljundhammer]

Yeah, the HWSs were more durable & lower on opponent's radars than I thought they would be, having tried them out a few times. The 'low threat' surprised me as they'd be the first things I'd take out, but then I run AV12 spam... I think you need to run a few multiples though.

And fliers, yes, I'm starting to work them out now in my head. Whether I'm right or not will depend on playtime. I'm going to get a couple of Vendettas with my birthday money!

AV13 is a tricky bugger. If it's coming at me then I'll have to trust my meltaguns & krak grenades. Until the flyers appear...

[killmaimburn]

Bike lists and drop lists.. LH laughs at the idea of drop pod lists.Because he always has twice as much firepower on the table. (well 6 times as much cos he plays an all shooty list)

Ok.. yes against guard on bowling ball with no night fight its an obvious one.

But 1st turn denial.. getting around night fight a well supported list can do wonders.
This is best shown off by the reasons to take a droppod rifleman.
Something that can come down, within range in nightfight, against all sheninagan tank walls 30 min deployments to still get side shots from relative safety.. which then allows troops a relative safety and mobility.
Drop pods rounding up is a choice allowing flexibility of what does come down when.. so melta can land first if required vice versa.. (I can't remember did the web say no more empty podding or was that just for tyranid spores??)

If your going bikes.. I'm intrigued by the idea of taking a BA sub contingent.. (before dark angels)
librarian on bike..handy and mandatory.
ASM squad in droppod with melta (mandatory..and allows flexibility with timing of pods)
rifleman (heavy) in drop pod
as many cleric/medic/priest things as you want because they are 3 to slot..on bikes allied to a captain on bike with bikes as troops. (and a few riflemen in pods)
There is a butt load of mobility and options somewhere in something like that... not like 20,000 autocannons for 100 points.. but makes me intrigued.
I see why bane brings it up, he says this edition is all about shooty guard alpha strike, and in at least some circumstances taking the initiative and appearing beside the gunline.. is taking that away.

I have silly number of pods.. if we can come up with something reasonable I'm willing to bring it to a table for field tests.

Oh and

Unless I go first. Then you auto lose.

"Q: If all of my units are either Flyers or embarked upon Flyers, will I automatically lose the game as there are none of my models on the gaming board at the end of Turn 1? (p122)
A: Yes."
Are my units in flyers or embarked upon flyers.. no they're in drop pods.. and you do like playing by RAW so ..no.
Then we revert to the general rule..which specifically says Game turn. so pods land and we(I'm assuming your not intending to take excitipods) don't lose. (p122 middle left)

Now bikes are bulky can they go in pods?? (I assume they don't have the option in the list and bikes are different to infantry??)

[Ljundhammer]

The only games where I've been worried are those where an army of bikes appears "like magic" a couple of inches away from my front line on turn 1.

I can't kill them all. I can't manouvre out of the way. All I can do it hold the trigger down & hope. (I was reading the bear hunt story last night "We can't go over it, we can't go under it, we'll have to go through it")

Pods do it badly as only half the army appears & they're easier to kill than bikes (who have their own built in cover save + T5 natural).

Is it really game turn? My bad, pods should be ok then - you hope...

[BANE]

But 50% of my army vs 100% of yours with me going first has got to be better of 100% of your army spending 2-3 turns shooting up 100% of my army.

[Ljundhammer]

Perhaps if that is an issue for you then the list needs more of a re-think.

In my travails through IG in 6th, & through watching other people's lists play, 6th is much more shooty than 5th ever was. Mostly in long range shooting. Partly due to the death of the mechvet lists (and SM varients which did the same), and partly because assault is not really where you want to be any more (even elite assault units will be taking more hits back now & can't effectively multicharge).

If you don't have long range weapons able to get to your opponent on turn 1 then you're going to need a dcent trick to get round it. Bike can manage (against IG, but I reckon that it's at least partly transferable) through throwing an entire amy down your opponent's throat on tuen one - but that's risky & does better with some long range shooting to take out at least some of the threats by the time the bikes get there. Pods could do this, but with lots of long range weaponry then most of your opponent's army will be able to shoot you (and a decent opponent will not leave space for you to deploy you pod so as to block LoS).

[BANE]

I refuse to build a list that will result in a game of trading fire from opposite sides of the table, also if I did want to go that route IG would still do it better than me.

I am a balanced player, I like an army where I can look at the oppenants weakness and attack it, which means my armies need both a shooty and cc element. I do favor the assault . I consider myself at a disadvantage to start with as balanced list by nature are average at everything, and it only works if you managed to put your average against enemies weakness.

I agree that 6th is now more ranged shooting and expect to see lots of it, but that said the 2 best ranged shooty list would be IG and Tau, both weak to cc, so I feel the list needs to be worked to deal with this armies on the idea if I can deal with the best I can deal with the rest.

[Ljundhammer]

SM & GK can do pretty good shooting lists (lascannons/MLs and wall of death at 24" respectively).

But yes, I take your point.

Allies are worth exploring to plug gaps in your army. That's what they're for...