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I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby Baragash » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:27 pm

The above post makes no sense to me whatsoever, I can see two outright errors but since there's zero context provided there's little point in responding at this juncture.
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby ruffian4 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:12 pm

Baragash wrote:The above post makes no sense to me whatsoever, I can see two outright errors .

KMB asked for a summary of the argument, that's what that is (ie, what the rules say vs. that nonsense).
Make of it what you will.

Baragash wrote:but since there's zero context provided there's little point in responding at this juncture

Good, go away then.
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby killmaimburn » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:19 pm

There is a lack of smiley to convey levity in all the above ... :xxonlyamother
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby Baragash » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:59 am

*necromancy dance*

Why (with quotes and supporting explanation) is "in range" for wound allocation determined on the basis of the longest range weapon in the unit?
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby ruffian4 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:36 am

Is that rhetorical, why does it work that way or where do I find this nugget of poo?
Its an faq rulebook ruling and is, as far as I can tell, oddness itself.
Even the question is phrased bizarrely and makes little sense (that is the one in the faq, not yours).
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby Baragash » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:52 am

It's not rhetorical ;)

I was reading through the whole mess last night after someone complained about 24" Flamer wounds, and I can't find an explicit statement in favour of that part.
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby killmaimburn » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:10 am

Flamers are odd so i shall dodge your demand to regurgitate and ponder from a different angle..the models under the template "are hit".
(Its just messy when that then gets poured into the wound pool..mayhaps ARE is a definite english language in that those hits may not be allocated elsewhere???)
Just a silly bolt on. :D (wall of death explicitly extends their range to limitless through fluff handwavium)
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby Baragash » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:29 am

killmaimburn wrote:Flamers are odd so i shall dodge your demand to regurgitate and ponder from a different angle..the models under the template "are hit".


No one has a problem with this bit, we're just looking for the explicit statement that In Range is determined on the basis of the longest range weapon.
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby ruffian4 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:18 pm

This is the dirty fucker, from the rulebook faq.

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

So the book just has wound pools generated from how many hits the unit took (irrespective of range).
The ruling caps casualties caused by range, so your heavy bolter fires 36" and because of that, so does your flamer in retrospect.
It introduces the concept of targetting models (instead of units) outside of precision shots etc.

This gives us a muddle about range in its entirety, in that "what is the range of a boltgun if it rapid fires at 12"?
Imo, the range doesn't get reduced, just shots increased and I think that assumption is evident in the rulebook.
But, then consider a character precision shooting a model, with a rapid fire weapon and the chosen model is 13" away and it starts to seem most odd.

Its a bit messy.
Last edited by ruffian4 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby ruffian4 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:28 pm

killmaimburn wrote:Flamers are odd so i shall dodge your demand to regurgitate and ponder from a different angle..the models under the template "are hit".
(Its just messy when that then gets poured into the wound pool..mayhaps ARE is a definite english language in that those hits may not be allocated elsewhere???)
Just a silly bolt on. :D (wall of death explicitly extends their range to limitless through fluff handwavium)

Thing is, according to the book, wounds don't care about range, range is dealt with when you tally up what can shoot. The models under the template may well be "hit" by flamers but it doesn't mean they will go on to be wounded by them.
If those hits end up different in ap or something, they could fall into a wound group that ends up killing models way further away than the "range" of a flamer.

The faq turns this on its head, making a unit of just flamers range dependent not only on determining range to see who shoots, but goes on to limit the range of wounds too.
This is a new concept entirely.

Add a heavy bolter and the range of the flamers doesn't increase as far as to hit is concerned, but it increases the range of the entire unit, as for wounding.

Great, innit?
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby Baragash » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:42 pm

So to clarify something I thought last night which I think you've said above.... prior to the FAQ/taking just the rulebook, there was no range limit for wound allocation?
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Re: I actually picked up the 6th ed rulebook

Postby ruffian4 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:26 pm

Exactly.
P16 out of range seems to be in direct contradiction with this faq ruling, so, if it was errata, then fair enough, but this answer is a rules change.
Ironically, it seems that this has left people with a wtf moment about something that was already there but even moreso, generated by entirely NEW rules in the faq.

According to the book, the unit is as far away as the nearest model, the wound pool then grinds on 'till its exhausted.
According to the faq, the wound pool extends up to the range of a "target model" that could be hit by a particular model in the shooting unit, ie the model with the longest range shooting attack.

:?: :?: :?:
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