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Genestealer Cult - 5th ed Update (Combat Patrol)

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Genestealer Cult - 5th ed Update (Combat Patrol)

Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:10 pm

Hey all :)

EDIT: most up-to-date rules are in post #66!

as promised (although a little late), here is the current state of my homebrew Genestealer Cult rules. just a few things to note first:

- this isnt a full codex - it doesnt have any options, variable squad sizes, upgrades etc: its designed to be a ready made Combat Patrol list (400pts) with its own rules
- this isnt intended to stand up against competitive lists - its written for a balanced/fun/fluffy environment
- this is based on my perception (and recollection) of a Genestealer Cult - as such, it probably wont match up to the canon fluff, and thats fine: its meant to be my take on it
- i dont have any models for this list yet (barring some Genestealers), but when i do eventually start building it, i plan on using a mix of old models (Magus and Hybrids, from ebay) and new(er) ones (Delaque Gangers and BFM Stealers)
- nothing is final yet (although some bits are more final than others): i still have to come up with Psy powers and some points costs, for example
- a note on Vehicles: i decided not to include any trucks/limos etc in the list, partly due to the small size of CP games. i used the "Home Turf" rule to make up for this (both in fluff terms and game balance)
- i wrote this before i read any 5th ed "rumours" :roll:

without any further ado, heres the list in its current (very WIP) form:

Code: Select all
Genestealer Magus - Force Commander - xx pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
3     3    3    3    2    4   1(2)  10  5+/3+Inv

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 1 Model
Weapons: Laspistol, Force Weapon (Staff)
Special Rules:
- Independant Character
- Psyker ("Jinx" & "The Hive Mind Commands It!")
- Fearless
- Psychic Shield: the Magus has 3+ Invulnerable Save, and cannot suffer Instant Death.
- Hive Beacon: all friendly units within 12" of the Magus may use his Ld for any Leadership tests while he is alive.


Brood Brothers Squad - xx pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
2     2    3    3    1    4    1     5    6+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 12 Models
Weapons: Lasguns/Autoguns. In addition, 1 model has a Flamer and 1 has a Heavy Stubber (R24", S4, AP6, Assault 3).
Special Rules:
- Brood Telepathy: the unit does not suffer from Instinctive Behaviour - instead it takes Pinning and Morale Tests using its own Ld.
- Home Turf: The unit has the Scouts and Move Through Cover USRs. If the Magus is joined to the unit, these rules are not lost.


Brood Brothers Anti-tank Squad - xx pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
2     2    3    3    1    4    1     5    6+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 6 Models
Weapons: Lasguns/Autoguns, Krak Grenades. In addition, 3 models have Rocket Launchers (R24", S8, AP3, Assault 1).
Special Rules:
- Brood Telepathy (see above)
- Home Turf (see above)


Genestealer Hybrid Brood - xx pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
3     2    4    3    1    4   1(2)   8    5+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 12 Models
Weapons: Laspistols/Autopistols, Close Combat Weapons, Frag Grenades. In addition, 4 models have Rending Claws.
Special Rules:
- Fleet
- Brood Telepathy (see above)
- Home Turf (see above)


Genestealer Purestrain Brood - 120 pts

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
6     0    4    4    1    6   2(3)  10    5+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 6 Models
Weapons: Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Special Rules:
- Fleet
- Move Through Cover
- Brood Telepathy (see above)
- Hidden Threat: The Purestrain Brood must be placed in Reserve during Deployment, and enter play using the Deep Strike rule. Once they arrive, they receive a 5+ Cover Save, even in the open, until the start of the following Cult turn.


things to add:
- Psy powers (so far im considering "Jinx" and "The Hive Mind Commands It!" - more on these later)
- points values (these will probably be the last thing i do, as the rest of the rules need to be finalised first - the list will add up to 400 pts total, though)

im considering allowing the Stealers to charge into CC if they scatter onto/within 1" of an enemy unit. im also considering giving them a 5+ Cover Save until the start of the next turn after they arrive (assuming they dont scatter into CC) to represent them peeking out of air vents or sewers, or being partially concealed by the hole they have dug.

EDIT: list updated to show Cover Save for 'stealers.
EDIT: added Move Through Cover to the 'stealers (D'oh!)

thoughts? :?:

cheers :)

~ Tim
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:15 pm

So what disadvantages does this army have? Not a snide question...a genuine one. Looking at it everything seems beneficial. Are you looking at a single squad of each or could you take say 3 units of Stealer Hybrids?
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:12 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:So what disadvantages does this army have?

well...
- about half the force will be (roughly) IG Conscript equivalents, statwise.
- the Stealers will be forced into Reserves, and dont have an improved Sv (which seems to be a common upgrade)
- the army has only 3 ranged Anti-tank/Anti MEQ shots a turn, at Ork BS
- only a small portion of the force has Rending (compared to an all-Stealer list)
- no weapon has more than 24" range
- no unit has an Upgrade Character
- the majority of the force has a 6+ Save

in terms of numbers the force will be on par with an IG CP, but half the force will be worse than Guard.

i think its pretty balanced: a bit of ranged firepower, a bit of anti-tank, a bit of CC punch. it lacks transports and other vehicles but has scout and fleet. it lacks Infiltrate but has DS.

mattjgilbert wrote:Are you looking at a single squad of each or could you take say 3 units of Stealer Hybrids?

its a set list with one squad of each, i.e. : 1 Magus, 18 Brood Brothers (inc. AT squad), 12 Hybrids and 6 Stealers for a total of 37 models.

i was thinking of making the Brood Brothers about 4pts each. something like:
12 Brood Brothers + Flamer + Heavy Stubber = 60 pts
6 Brood Brothers + 3 Rocket Launchers = 55 pts

Stealers are costed as per C: Nids, so that leaves roughly 165 pts for the Hybrids and Magus (13 models). as the total is fixed, the individual cost of each unit only really matters for VP purposes.

i need to write up something for the Psy powers - il try and get that done this afternoon. :)

cheers

~ Tim
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:16 pm

Want the list playtested?
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:53 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:Want the list playtested?

once its a bit more final, yeah sure. :D

here are some rough ideas for the Psy powers:

- the Magus will have 2 powers and a Force Weapon, but will only be able to use 1 per turn
- the Powers will need Psy Tests, and he can lose a wound from Perils
- the Powers are cast in the Cult Shooting Phase instead of the Magus firing a weapon (so cannot be used while he is Locked in CC) and last until the start of the following Cult turn - they dont follow any of the shooting rules unless noted otherwise.
- Powers:

Jinx
Pick any one enemy model within LOS (In the case of Vehicles, or weapons that can be fired by more than one model, nominate a single weapon to be affected instead). If the target is with 24" then it has been Jinxed. While the power is in effect the Cult player can force the victim to re-roll any successful "to-hit" rolls when Shooting.

The Hive Mind Commands It!
Pick any Genestealer Cult unit that has at least one model within 24" of the Magus. While the power is in effect the unit is Fearless. If the unit was already Falling Back then they immediately regroup (regardless of any of the normal considerations).


i didnt want Jinx too be too powerful against Vehicles (most of the time the different crewmen act almost like members of a squad, so it seemed unfair to affect all of them) and at the same time i didnt want players to be able to get around the Jinx when using IG/Eldar weapon teams or Artillery by saying that a different model is firing the weapon. i hope the wording didnt come out too complicated as a result.

originally i wanted "The Hive Mind Commands It!" to also confer Feel No Pain, but i think this would be a bit overpowered (and also a no-brainer: why bother Jinxing an enemy heavy weapon etc if you can just give their most likely target FNP?). i could imagine it being used every turn, too.

i think the powers as written above are quite balanced however.

thoughts? comments? criticism? suggestions?

cheers :)

~ Tim
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Postby ruffian4 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:00 pm

How about catalyst?
The last fanatical act of the cultists?
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:03 pm

What's the duration of the powers?

I'm also assuming that "the victim" is the chosen weapon in the case of a vehicle and it doesn't just prevent the owner of the weapon from firing at all!

Looks good. Both are defensive. Does that fit with your ideas for the cult or would one defensive and one offensive be better?

Perhaps extend the range of the Hive Beacon to 18" and swap THMCI to something aggressive? That might make the cult more focused around the influence of a powerful patriarchal or matriarchal figure head.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:05 pm

ruffian4 wrote:How about catalyst?
The last fanatical act of the cultists?
If the Magus dies, all cult members get preferred enemy in the following turn or something like that? Must move and/or charge the nearest enemy unit?
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:30 pm

ruffian4 wrote:How about catalyst?

i had discounted Catalyst for a couple of reasons: firstly, i was originally expecting to make a better version (THMCI!), and secondly i dont really "get" it as a power: most 'Nids have good Init, so why have a power that only helps if they die before they get to attack? :?

mattjgilbert wrote:What's the duration of the powers?

see 3rd bullet point ("...and last until the start of the following Cult turn..."). ;)

mattjgilbert wrote:I'm also assuming that "the victim" is the chosen weapon in the case of a vehicle and it doesn't just prevent the owner of the weapon from firing at all!

yes, any successful to-hit rolls scored with one weapon could be re-rolled (so it wouldnt affect a whole tank, just one gun). the rest of the weapons would work as normal.

would it be better to say that you just pick an enemy unit (within range and LOS) and then if that unit shoots next turn you get to re-roll hits scored by any one of the weapons used? that could streamline the wording - a "one rule fits all" sorta thing with no need for exceptions.

mattjgilbert wrote:Looks good. Both are defensive. Does that fit with your ideas for the cult or would one defensive and one offensive be better?

i remember a Jinx-like effect from the Space Hulk Playstation/PC game, so i wanted to include that. the idea was to have one power that debuffs the enemy and one that buffs the cult - originally though THMCI! was going to confer FNP...

i didnt want any zappy powers though (like Warp Blast etc) and there wont be much call for anti-Psyker powers either in such small games either.

mattjgilbert wrote:Perhaps extend the range of the Hive Beacon to 18" and swap THMCI to something aggressive?

something to spur them on, like Furious Charge? or re-roll (or count as rolling a 6 for) Fleet?

problem is stopping it from being too powerful (especially if applied to Stealers). :(

mattjgilbert wrote:
ruffian4 wrote:The last fanatical act of the cultists?
If the Magus dies, all cult members get preferred enemy in the following turn or something like that? Must move and/or charge the nearest enemy unit?

i didnt want it to be too "Tau Ethereal". ;)

besides, didnt the old Cult rules say that the force crumbled and scattered (= instant loss) if there was no Magus/Patriarch alive?

leaving the Brood Brothers with very poor Ld and leaving the army no means of Regrouping when below half strength should be enough, i think.

on a different topic, i went back to Flames of Damnation last night, to the GS Cult stories that inspired me to start writing this list. when the Stealers burst through the ground, the Arbites do get a chance to shoot at them before the charge, so i think scattering into CC should be out. on the other hand, they are partially concealed by the rubble etc, so i think a Cover Save is fair (to make up for the fact that over 1/4 of the points in the army will be standing around all bunched up being shot at for a turn - without an improved carapace - before they can charge). how does 5+ sound (just until the start of the next Stealer turn)? :?:

cheers guys - this is great :)

~ Tim
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:38 pm

Yeah on the stealer cover save. Regarding making the Hive Beacon too powerful for stealers... don't have it apply to them. They are the cult's more independant element after all...

You'll have to send me your stealers for dipping :) Seriously I you want me to do it :D
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:50 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:Yeah on the stealer cover save. Regarding making the Hive Beacon too powerful for stealers... don't have it apply to them. They are the cult's more independant element after all...

well they dont need his Ld 10, and making them Fearless isnt a concern. its stuff like FNP or Furious Charge that im more worried about.

mattjgilbert wrote:You'll have to send me your stealers for dipping :) Seriously I you want me to do it :D

cheers mate - it will be a long time before im scouring ebay to build this list though (ive got so much stuff on the drawing board). i wont even know what colours im going to use until then. :P

on another topic: a note on squad sizes. i went with multiples of 6 for everything, but the squad sizes could be tweaked a little to achieve balance (for example, 10 Brood Brothers instead of 12 maybe?).

cheers

~ Tim
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:56 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:well they dont need his Ld 10, and making them Fearless isnt a concern. its stuff like FNP or Furious Charge that im more worried about.
So don't have it apply to them...at all.

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:on another topic: a note on squad sizes. i went with multiples of 6 for everything, but the squad sizes could be tweaked a little to achieve balance (for example, 10 Brood Brothers instead of 12 maybe?).
6 sounds right for stealer cults to me. Something in the deep recesses of my mind says it's the right number if my murky grasp of fluff is anything to go by.
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Re: Genestealer Cult (Combat Patrol)

Postby ruffian4 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:28 pm

LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:- i dont have any models for this list yet (barring some Genestealers), but when i do eventually start building it, i plan on using a mix of old models (Magus and Hybrids, from ebay) and new(er) ones (Delaque Gangers and BFM Stealers)

The hybrids are going to cost a bit, I should imagine.
I just checked ebay, there were 5 up for sale (2 from america £6 p+p alone). A brit has three up for just £0.99 though, might want to check that one out pretty soon, sounds like a bargain. :)

Delaque gangers with rending claws/head swaps would look sweet. :D

I'm not sure how militaristic you want them to look tim.
You have gone for just brood brothers (rabble type), while some of the lists include brood brother comrades (cultist pdf).

The first squad looks like rabble, but the anti tankers seem more like admittedly poor quality military.
With the assault/short range of the rocket launchers maybe these guys would be cool.

Image

And for comrades.

Image

If you did use delaques as hybrids the greatcoat theme would look pretty powerfull, imo.
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Postby LordMalekTheRedKnight » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:37 pm

mattjgilbert wrote:
LordMalekTheRedKnight wrote:well they dont need his Ld 10, and making them Fearless isnt a concern. its stuff like FNP or Furious Charge that im more worried about.
So don't have it apply to them...at all.

how would you justify drawing a line, though? and where would it be drawn? would Hybrids be affected, or just Brood Brothers?

why wouldnt the power spur on anyone in the whole force? :?:

mattjgilbert wrote:6 sounds right for stealer cults to me. Something in the deep recesses of my mind says it's the right number if my murky grasp of fluff is anything to go by.

yeah, i got a similar feeling. maybe its because Stealers have 3 big claws on each hand? (like how we have 5 fingers and count in 10s)

EDIT:
ruffian4 wrote:The hybrids are going to cost a bit, I should imagine.

yeah, i know. :(

its only one squad though, and i already have the Stealers, so it shouldnt work out too much dearer than my other Combat Patrols. :)

ive got to finish everything ive already bought first, and then buy the next few lists... :roll:

ruffian4 wrote:Delaque gangers with rending claws/head swaps would look sweet. :D

If you did use delaques as hybrids the greatcoat theme would look pretty powerfull, imo.

i was going to use Delaques (as the Brood Brothers) without converting them - with their bald heads they are pretty perfect IMO (and they dont have mutations - they arent Hybrids afterall). i found a great rocket launcher for the anti-tank squad, but its not showing on the GW store anymore (i think its from the newer Orlock range?): 9947059911807 (hopefully it will be available again by the time they sort the website out). im not sure whether i would convert that onto spare Delaques or use something different for the body...

as to those Pig Iron figs... while they are great looking models, i wont be getting them. first off my cult is more of a rabble (civilians hiding hybrids etc), but mainly because i only buy GW models (not because im elitist or anything, its just personal preference). for Terrain i will use anything, but models have to be GW for me (although i dont mind what game system they come from).

cheers

~ Tim
p.s. i used an all Stealer 'Nid force in 3rd ed (lead by a "Patriarch", i.e. a Stealer with the mutation that gave +1 S & T), and while it was fun it was a bit 1 dimensional.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:50 pm

I'm sure 6 and 12 are right...will dig out some old White Drafs later if I remember... and some of the Space Hulk stuff might be useful.

re: drawing a line. Those still with a human connection still rely on the influence or still feel the influence of the magus directing what they do. The "pure" stealers can operate without it and can even melt away to form new cults should they one they are "attached" to be destroyed. Fits what I remember of how stealers operate while "seeding" worlds...
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