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HE RBTs

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HE RBTs

Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:31 pm

I always used to take them in a HE army. They seemed to be an automatic choice which appeared in the list without thinking. However, I eventually came to the conclusion they were not doing me any favours.

For their points I can't seem to get them justify their inclusion. If they are in the list, they become targets and get a round (or two) of firing before they are picked on or taken out. OK, so that means they have the scare factor for an opponent but it's not much effort on their part to remove the problem. Not taking them has suprised a couple of opponents who were expecting them in a HE army which is always nice (if they took units to deal with them!) but let me know how you use them or what you think about them.

I might try them again. Maybe I'm not using them right or with the right support or combinatio of other units/magic/firepower...
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Postby Angelwing » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:35 pm

I'd be suspicious of any High elf army without them. They are good solid units that dish out some serious damage. If I didn't see any, I would get paranoid about what was lurking in the rest of the force (unless it's a star dragon or an all cavalry force which would then be obvious). I would rather deal with the bolt throwers than the mages which tend to replace them.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:37 pm

Interesting, I've tended to spend the points on more infantry. I don't have a dragon or any dragon princes yet (will get some at some point).
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Postby Angelwing » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:40 pm

When I first started playing, RBT were always maxed out and every player had them. Nowdays I don't see them as much but it's now star dragons or cavalry heavy armies stuffed full of mages with sword masters as backup.
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Postby Baragash » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:39 pm

I play 4 Great Eagles as my rare. With White Lions being Stubborn, I'm fairly happy I can feed them to anything that justifies an 8-foot long tree being shot at it, have them hold, kill a few expensive models (ASF) and then hit the unit with a multi-charge in my turn.

I just don't find them to be worth 100 points.

I tend to play 2x White Lions with an additional White Lion or Phoenix Guard unit to give me 3 good infantry blocks (yes, 2x10 archers core, sorry GW, spears still aren't worth it).
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Postby mattjgilbert » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:32 pm

I need to get some Lions as I'm currently limited to Sword Master and PG. I use Spearmen over archers!

What's your typical list look like then?
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Postby Baragash » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:55 pm

I hadn't forgotten about this....

mattjgilbert wrote:I need to get some Lions as I'm currently limited to Sword Master and PG. I use Spearmen over archers!

What's your typical list look like then?


I've used this a couple of times since the new book came out, it's a medium powered infantry based list I would say.

Core

10xArchers 110
10xArchers 110

Special

14xWhite Lions 265
Command, Lion Standard

14xWhite Lions 260
Command, War Banner

14xPhoenix Guard 265
Command, Banner of Arcane Protection

5xDragon Princes 150

5xShadow Warriors 80

Rare

Great Eagle 50
Great Eagle 50
Great Eagle 50
Great Eagle 50

Lord

Prince 246
Great Weapon, Amulet of Light, Dragon Armour, Temakador's Gauntlets, Sacred Incence
(Normally deployed in the Phoenix Guard)

Heroes

Battle Standard 174
Great Weapon, Dragon Armour, Guardian Phoenix, Helm of Fortune
(Normally deployed in the first White Lion unit)

Mage 140
2xDispel Scrolls
(Normally deployed with the Shadow Warriors and the Fireball spell)

Total: 2000

The line regiments deploy in 2x7 (with an over-spill from adding characters sliding into the 3rd rank).

Sometimes I play with 3 Eagles and switch in Level 2 and the Gem of Courage and put the Mage in the second White Lion unit if I think the Ld test could be useful.
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Postby Angelwing » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:30 am

Uh oh. Minimum core alert! ;)

On the other hand, 1 mage and a prince on foot has surprised me.
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Postby Baragash » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:15 am

Angelwing wrote:Uh oh. Minimum core alert! ;)

On the other hand, 1 mage and a prince on foot has surprised me.


It's not a tournament list, otherwise I'd have 2+ Dragon Prince units, 2 Level 2s, a Battle Standard with the Magic Flag of Doom and a mounted Prince as the core of the points.

Because HE core is still over-priced crap.

GW basically admitted it by lowering the requirement and upping the specials/rare.

I wrote this somewhere else:

2x10 Archers.

Why?

Basically, HE Spears (and obviously Sea Guard) maul light infantry (Goblins, Humans, other Elves), and will put in a respectable performance against medium infantry (Dwarves, Orcs). Unfortunately, only a stupid opponent is going to walk his infantry up to fight the Spearmen. Usually they lay the smackdown on them with a nice juicy hammer unit leaving an expensive stain on the grass.

Which is a shame, as in a straight fight with DE, DoC or VC infantry (the 3 perceived power books), Spearmen stand a good chance of winning. It's a battle they won't get the opportunity to fight.

Quite simply, all HE Core units are over-priced. Take Archers and concentrate on light cavalry, enemy shooting and war machines with them, otherwise, use them to take enough models off a unit to knock it's rank bonus down by 1 (so a 20 model target means you only need to kill 1, which is doable).

I'm partial to fighting with 3x14 White Lions or 2x14 White Lions and 1x14 Phoenix Guard as my main line, supported by Eagles, Dragon Princes and Chariots in some combination. Stubborn, ASF at S6 and the best infantry save vs Shooting = yes please.
Last edited by Baragash on Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Angelwing » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:02 pm

Baragash wrote:
It's not a tournament list, otherwise I'd have 2+ Dragon Prince units, 2 Level 2s, a Battle Standard with the Magic Flag of Doom and a mounted Prince as the core of the points.

Because HE core is still over-priced crap.

GW basically admitted it by lowering the requirement and upping the specials/rare.



Thats the sort of list I used to see at my last store. I agree, the reason people take minimum core is because every other choice is far superior.
It's in reverse with the skaven. Clanrats and slaves are great, while the specials are naff for the overall way the skaven list is designed to work.
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Postby mattjgilbert » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:08 pm

I might try out a similar list (although I don't have the collection to do it yet... might have to proxy...yuk).

4 Eagles... used for what? Picking off warmachines/march blocking or both? Do you operate them altogether, in pairs or something else?
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Postby Angelwing » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:29 pm

Eagles are basically war machine and mage hunters, march blockers and arrow fodder. I'd operate them in pairs to make sure I overwhelmed war machine crew and such.
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Postby Baragash » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:37 pm

It depends on what the enemy army is.

Typically in pairs, as I find 1 Eagle isn't sufficient to feel safe doing the job (if they had 3A it might be a different matter).

Uses:
-War Machines
-Fast Cavalry Hunting
-Wizard Hunting (including frontal suicides)
-Skirmisher Hunting
-Bait
-Extra A in CC to support other units and 3D6" pursuit if your infantry win and break the enemy
-(not in this list) supporting a chariot (often surprises an opponent if you don't have the eagles and chariot next to each other as they will look at the chariot but not consider the eagle)

What I choose to do with them depends on what army & units the enemy has. Fast cavalry in particular is dodgy as there are quite a few packing missile weapons which can be a pain to steer clear of.

This list did come about as a result of generally playing VC and DoC (not tournie lists) recently. Being relatively resistant to shooting has helped against DE too.
Last edited by Baragash on Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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